No Chill Versus Chill?

[S.E]

Way back when Brewers where burned at the stake for even suggesting no chill.....we gave it a go

And it took a while for us to work out why our beers just didnt taste the same

Eventually we worked out that no-chill added 10-15 mins to the hop schedule... IE a 0 min addition became a 10 min addition when it had cooled down

Oh how things have changed, and brewers are no longer burnt at the stake.... ( except if you question Star-San and other methods...man the Star-San fan boy's go nuts ....you will get botulism...etc...etc..)

Modern brewing software now has settings for no-chill....all because a bunch of us decided it could be done and worked out all the things that didnt make it work

Getting proper flame out aroma can be done with no-chill if you know how

NOTE:- I dont know of any brewer who has suffered the almost mandated botulism at the time....apparently no-chill was a sure fire death sentence

I have heard a few times about the no chill botulism war but never found the thread, does it still exist or was it hidden?

My understanding was that no chill in a cube (or slow chill as it should have been called as it does still chill slowly) was first tried on here and made popular by the Illawarra Brewers Union and the earliest mention I can find is this http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/articles/article56.html written by IBU member Cortez The Killer and discussed here http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/23742-ahb-wiki-the-no-chiller-method-using-a-cube/ by Cortez with input from other IBU members.

Also post #55 on Homebrew talk by IBU member Fatgodzilla http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=117111&page=6

At the time it seems that most brewers on AHB thought that wort must be chilled immediately after the boil but no chilling is in fact a very old HB method and was commonly practiced before we had internet and this forum.

Homebrewing was learned from books or word of mouth pre internet and wort chillers were not readily available so the two main methods of cooling was pour the wort into a fermenter or plastic beer barrel and either place it in a bath of cold water or let it cool slowly at ambient.

When I lived in a flat with only a shower I would leave it in a barrel for a day or two. I only recall cube or barrel hopping once though as I had forgotten to add the 5min addition to the boil.

Carbing in cubes or using them as casks for dispensing real ale is another old and simple HB method that is now popular but took a bit of flack from nay sayers and when the idea was first posted here http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/70056-carbingconditioning-in-a-cube-before-keg/

I think the trolling and burning at the stake that used to happen on AHB was because in the early years of the forum most members had never heard of the old simple methods and had learned to brew using modern or advanced methods from How To Brew and American home brew sites.

If you look back at some of the old threads it was years before it was realised you don’t need a three tier brewery, chiller or airlock etc to brew.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I have heard a few times about the no chill botulism war but never found the thread, does it still exist or was it hidden? - I dont think there was an actual thread....but we are talking 10yrs ago h34r:

My understanding was that no chill in a cube (or slow chill as it should have been called as it does still chill slowly) was first tried on here and made popular by the Illawarra Brewers Union and the earliest mention I can find is this http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/articles/article56.html written by IBU member Cortez The Killer and discussed here http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/23742-ahb-wiki-the-no-chiller-method-using-a-cube/ by Cortez with input from other IBU members. Go back 10yrs

Also post #55 on Homebrew talk by IBU member Fatgodzilla http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=117111&page=6

At the time it seems that most brewers on AHB thought that wort must be chilled immediately after the boil but no chilling is in fact a very old HB method and was commonly practiced before we had internet and this forum.

Homebrewing was learned from books or word of mouth pre internet and wort chillers were not readily available so the two main methods of cooling was pour the wort into a fermenter or plastic beer barrel and either place it in a bath of cold water or let it cool slowly at ambient. This is very true....

When I lived in a flat with only a shower I would leave it in a barrel for a day or two. I only recall cube or barrel hopping once though as I had forgotten to add the 5min addition to the boil.

Carbing in cubes or using them as casks for dispensing real ale is another old and simple HB method that is now popular but took a bit of flack from nay sayers and when the idea was first posted here http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/70056-carbingconditioning-in-a-cube-before-keg/

I think the trolling and burning at the stake that used to happen on AHB was because in the early years of the forum most members had never heard of the old simple methods and had learned to brew using modern or advanced methods from How To Brew and American home brew sites. BIAB...now THAT was a war...No Chill paled in comparison

If you look back at some of the old threads it was years before it was realised you don’t need a three tier brewery, chiller or airlock etc to brew. WHOOAA...ease up the S.E.....Remember when 3 Tier breweries where all the rage..and your where castigated for still using a false bottom esky

 

[lost at sea]

i must be the poster child for lazy brewing....
ive only ever BIAB-NC and cube hopped. wouldnt know anything different, my reasons were to save a butt load of water being wasted (IMHO), save on the cost/hassle of a chiller and time saving on brew day, from go to whoa takes me roughly 4 hours, i prep my water into the kettle the night before and clean my gear along the way.....

bitterness? i do a single bittering addition around 40-30 mins, then cube hop everything else. and depending on style, do a dry-hop where required.

i love the NC and cube hops its just so freaking easy.

 

[bradsbrew]

Originally I no chilled, then when I had the Grainfather I chilled using the counterflow chiller. The "hoppy ales" that I chilled were far superior than any that I no chilled, resin and aroma seemed "fresher". Having said that, now that I have moved back to a bigger system (140L output) I have gone back to no chilling as it is easier and, as mentioned, with a little extra work and effort you will still get well balanced hoppy beers, just the "freshness" and "lasting aroma" is not the same as the chilled brews, for me.

Cheers

 

[Rocker1986]

I've never 'actively' chilled wort, been NC since I went AG, but I've just adapted hop schedules to work with the process to give me what I want. I usually find with APAs for example that a small early addition (either FWH or 60 mins), then reasonably sized additions at 10 minutes and flameout with a generous dry hop gives me plenty of hop flavour and aroma. I have an APA on tap currently that is very tasty. I am planning to try cube hopping though, it sounds like it would only improve it more. I have no plans to move to chilling, with only having one FV and the brew fridge only accommodating said FV, it's a lot more convenient to no-chill because brew days rarely line up with when the FV is empty.

 

[S.E]

I have heard a few times about the no chill botulism war but never found the thread, does it still exist or was it hidden? - I dont think there was an actual thread....but we are talking 10yrs ago h34r:

My understanding was that no chill in a cube (or slow chill as it should have been called as it does still chill slowly) was first tried on here and made popular by the Illawarra Brewers Union and the earliest mention I can find is this http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/articles/article56.html written by IBU member Cortez The Killer and discussed here http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/23742-ahb-wiki-the-no-chiller-method-using-a-cube/ by Cortez with input from other IBU members. Go back 10yrs

Also post #55 on Homebrew talk by IBU member Fatgodzilla http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=117111&page=6

At the time it seems that most brewers on AHB thought that wort must be chilled immediately after the boil but no chilling is in fact a very old HB method and was commonly practiced before we had internet and this forum.

Homebrewing was learned from books or word of mouth pre internet and wort chillers were not readily available so the two main methods of cooling was pour the wort into a fermenter or plastic beer barrel and either place it in a bath of cold water or let it cool slowly at ambient. This is very true....

When I lived in a flat with only a shower I would leave it in a barrel for a day or two. I only recall cube or barrel hopping once though as I had forgotten to add the 5min addition to the boil.

Carbing in cubes or using them as casks for dispensing real ale is another old and simple HB method that is now popular but took a bit of flack from nay sayers and when the idea was first posted here http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/70056-carbingconditioning-in-a-cube-before-keg/

I think the trolling and burning at the stake that used to happen on AHB was because in the early years of the forum most members had never heard of the old simple methods and had learned to brew using modern or advanced methods from How To Brew and American home brew sites. BIAB...now THAT was a war...No Chill paled in comparison

If you look back at some of the old threads it was years before it was realised you don’t need a three tier brewery, chiller or airlock etc to brew. WHOOAA...ease up the S.E.....Remember when 3 Tier breweries where all the rage..and your where castigated for still using a false bottom esky

BIAB was another war that I missed. I saw the tread come up from time to time but didn’t read it as I thought they were just discussing the method.

I didn’t realise they thought they were inventing it at the time and caused a bit of an upset when I mentioned it was an old method popular in the seventies and eighties and posted a pic of my eighties BIAB setup.

[SIZE=11pt]Again I think it must have been because BIAB wasn’t discussed on American sites. [/SIZE]

 

[Stouter]

I mentioned it was an old method and popular in the seventies and eighties and posted a pic of my eighties BIAB setup. [/size][/font]

That's Old School right there.

 

[Bribie G]

Yet another opportunity to trot out this lovely old picture:



When All Grain home brewing really took off about 20 years ago, it was the bleeding obvious that you simply cobbled together a mini-version of the above, and problem solved.
After all, tried and tested over centuries so why try to fix what ain't broke.

However most of the processes at the traditional brewery were directed towards cranking out thousands of litres of beer per brew, but as home brewers we have far greater flexibility with mashing, cooling etc. As the boundaries got pushed, of course there were reactionary factions and splinter groups and much argy bargy as we saw on this forum going back six or eight years ago.

The "one size fits all brewery" was a bit like saying "ok, to get to the supermarket what you need is to build a quarter sized Mack prime mover with a Maxitrans Ezi-Liner B-Double set attached, big enough for two people to fit in, with groceries.

Whereas what you really needed was a Toyota Corolla.

 

[Stouter]

Whereas what you really needed was a Toyota Corolla.

Or a Datsun 180Biab?

 

[UsernameTaken]

As a relative newbee I am loving all this history!

Keep it up...

Cheers,
UNT

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

180Biab ( brew in a bomb )

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I didn’t realise they thought they were inventing it at the time and caused a bit of an upset when I mentioned it was an old method popular in the seventies and eighties and posted a pic of my eighties BIAB setup.

[SIZE=11pt]Again I think it must have been because BIAB wasn’t discussed on American sites. [/SIZE]

The BIAB war wasnt because they thought they invented it, rather, that brewers of the day would not accept it as a method..

" Your beer will never taste like proper AG"

" You wont get it as efficient as AG "

" Its not as good as AG"

" Your balls will shrivel up and fall off"

Same sort if silly reasons as shit caning No-chill

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

The masochist in me misses those days.

The fights were annoying but hell it was fun to see people pushing things and the discussion therein.

Had a great chat with Rdevjun about how to extract maximum volume from minimum equipment and I still value the ideas we bounced.

 

[Batz]

I have heard a few times about the no chill botulism war but never found the thread, does it still exist or was it hidden?

You need to take the way back machine at a time we had a member called Darren.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/9354-the-no-chiller-method/page-10?hl=botulism#entry122433

Enjoy.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

You need to take the way back machine at a time we had a member called Darren.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/9354-the-no-chiller-method/page-10?hl=botulism#entry122433

Enjoy.

He WAS the man.....Incredible really

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

From the thread way back in 2006

This debate has been interesting, but brewers must be certain of the risks and variables in the process.

It is widely accepted that achieving a quick cool down and pitching as soon as possible is prefferable brewing practise.

It is also obvious that some brewers are having success with storing hot and pitching some time into the future. Just because the process works for people like Kai, Ray Mills and microbreweries does not automatically mean that it will work for you.

Kai and Ray Mills are brewers that have shown in the winner's circle that they pay alot of attention to their brewing. They may have perfected variables that other brewers may still struggling with. Boil length and strength, water treatment, correct hopping, correct transfer and perfect sanitation are variables that spring to mind that would have an effect on wort stability. Just because it works for people such as Kai and Ray, does not automatically mean it will work for you.

This is a big trap for many newer brewers who see or read of different proceedures that Ross, Kai, Ray, GLS, Barry or of any other top notch brewer, without understanding that these advanced brewers pay attention to all aspects of their brewing. For instance, a brewer that has access to large coldroom facilities will have a big edge over people who store their brews at room temperature, because cold storage means the brews do not show signs of aging as quickly.

There are many many variables. It is only side by side experiments that can give a true picture.

Storing warm does give some flexability to the brewing day, but should not be looked on as the way to go.

 

[Batz]

He was actually was trained in a field that could have helped us all a lot back then. Bad luck he was such a dick.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

He was actually was trained in a field that could have helped us all a lot back then. Bad luck he was such a dick.

This is true

...and the New Darren

 

[Lionman]

So how long would you whirlpool for in the kettle for when cube hopping?

Cheers,
UNT

I don't think there is much benefit in whirlpooling at all if you are transferring hot wort to a cube, but I have not done both to compare side by side.

Just put the whirlpool additions in the cube. They will be in contact with hot wort for a similar amount of time as whirlpool additions would be so it stands to reason that a similar result would be reached.

One potential draw back of no chill is that you miss out on the possible nuances of late additions. The subtle differences between 10, 5 and 0 minute additions are harder to accomplish.

Its not a perfect method, it's a compromise. The process is quicker, easier, cheaper and uses less water but you lose some of the finer control over the final product.

You can still make delicious, hop forward beers though so for many, it's a compromise worth making.

 

[UsernameTaken]

But don't I still need to whirlpool to seperate some crud from the wort before transferring to the cube?

Cheers,
UNT