New Brew Rig And Low Efficiency

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The higher flow the more risk of stuck mash and channeling which was my original problem. When I did ramp the flow the herms initially struggled to hit the temp. There was definitely a fair difference in temp. The HERMS did a good job or heating the mash return considering the flow was relatively slow through the 10m in the pot.

I need to make sure my starting temp is right, which is the next thing to focus on. Then I won't have to rely on the HERMS to heat it up, just to keep it right. Mash is insulated with camping mat from clark rubber on walls and bottom. Need something to be a lid which will be sturdy enough to hold the mash return - although I might just get rid of the H style manifold and do something simpler as most times there's only liquid coming out of one or two outlets unless it's perfectly level.

Target was 21L into cube at 1.048 for 70%. Ended up with 21L into cube at 1.044 and about 1L left behind so my brewhouse efficiency is 70%. But if I remove the amount left behind its about 65%. Much better than 50%
 
Perhaps a piece of styrene foam above the wort return to limit the amount of heat coming off the mash. If your false bottom is struggling with increased flow then the only answer would be a falsie with larger surface area.
 
Perhaps a piece of styrene foam above the wort return to limit the amount of heat coming off the mash. If your false bottom is struggling with increased flow then the only answer would be a falsie with larger surface area.

Will look around to see if I have any pieces of foam to use. Can't increase the falsey as it's already the 12" kind and fits nicely in the keg.

Quick question - is there any problem with increasing the water/grain ratio for the mash? 2.6L/kg that beersmith has as a default meant that once the grain soaked up some of the water there really wasn't much free space. The last batch I increased it and the grain was free flowing. The higher ratio would allow me to increase the recirc through the herms so I can maintain the temps and even hit the right temps in the mash bed and reducing the risk of stuck mash. I do like the idea of half the water for the mash and the other half for the sparge.

Also a lower/higher mash temp doesn't affect the OG but does affect the FG right? Lower temp lower FG? or Lower temp higher FG?
 
I normally mash in with 3L/kg. Can't remember why I started with this but it works for me although not using a herms.
Lower mash temp = Lower FG all other things being equal.
Cheers
Nige
 
I normally mash in with 3L/kg. Can't remember why I started with this but it works for me although not using a herms.
Lower mash temp = Lower FG all other things being equal.
Cheers
Nige

+1

Lower mash temp means that more fermentable and less unfermentable sugars are extracted during the mashing. Hence the lower FG (as the yeast eats up virtually everything).

I had a low masher, that finished at 1.002 - it wasn't infected, just very high in alcohol.

Conversely, I mashed a dark ale high to deliberately get a full body and lower alcohol.

Goomba
 
Success! Target OG 1.048, I got approx 1.044. Slightly lower but there was some more wort left in the kettle so didn't boil off as much as I expected, that was due to about 15 or so minutes early on where the gas was turned down a little too much and lost the rolling boil and didn't realise. The final OG may be different but only a few points due to measuring the grav to be 1.014, taking temp which was at 80c and then taking the grav again which showed 1.018. I based it on 1.018@80c. It was about 12.30 this morning so outside temps were quite low.

I conditioned the grain before milling by lightly spraying it with warm water as I poured the grain into the hopper. With the drill at the lowest setting I slowly fed grain through. Took a while but didn't create any dust let alone a massive dust cloud I had on the weekend.

Great to see. Make yourself a hopper, gotta be easier

Increased the water-grain ratio to above 3 (was only meant to be 3 but pumped a bit more water in). Added the grains after adding the water which turned out a lot easier to ensure no doughballs and gave it a good mix through. Let it settle for a few minutes before opening the tun, starting pump and cracking the herms a little so there was some flow. Seems to be a bit of a juggling act trying to get the flow right as had to open the valve a fair bit to get it started and then pull it back, after a while the flow slowed a bit more so I'd stir the mash slightly only to discover it wasn't compact, opening the valve a little more and then backing off fixed - maybe some grains getting in the return? Had the soapy suds on top.
As a test next time only stir a few turns and compare efficiency. Open fully for about 30 seconds then throttle back to about 1/4, gets all the shite pumped through from beneath the grist, then the grainbed will filter at the slower rate and not compact, it will be quite open and almost floating, especially after the ramp to mash out. For my dough in volume, I click on Water/Grain Ratio and set at 2.75L/kg then click back on Water to add and just up the volume to the next full litre for simplicity (ie: 12.43L up to 15L)

At the end of the brew I realised the mash was lower than I'd wanted - a good 5 degrees I guess. I expected the herms to keep the whole thing at 66c, but of course with the slow flow it would never be able to do it. Should I have the HERMS temp set to a few degrees higher than the desired mash temp. Maybe the strike temp wasn't correct and the cold night didn't help either. When I was doing the mash out I had to set the herms to 80 for the bed to come up to 75, also increased the flow through the herms but was there to stir it up. With the higher ratio it didn't compact anyway.

Don't stress, I was advised early on in HERMS not to monitor the mashbed just to ensure that the recirculating wort never rose above the set temp, so monitoring at the HERMS HE Wort Out was best as this will be the closest you can get to the hottest part of the system. Moving a thermometer around the mash will reveal many different temps, so long as the wort is recirculating and not rising above the set mash temp all is ok, as you will see from the resulting beer.

Made sure to slowly drain to the kettle and the bed didn't show any signs of cracking. Added sparge, gave a good stir and then let it sit for a few minutes before slowly draining again. Remaining grain looked nothing like the weekend - looked like the top of a cake.

Things I need to further improve - making sure the strike temp is right and has been recirced through the HERMS before adding grain - started a bit low and didn't realise till later. Adjust the herms to be slightly higher than mash (if that's recommended). mill the grain while waiting for temp in HLT or do it day before - managed to start the mash some time after 8 and didn't finish until after 12. Not being at the right temp impacted the time the most.

Mill the day before, don't go raising temps, all is fine.

Well done cd, what was your efficiency this time? I find there is two things you can do when it comes to mash temp with a herm system.
1. Insulate everything as well as you can so that the mash temp closely resembles the herms output temp. If you try to get the same temp you may only become frustrated.
2. Ignore the temp in the mashtun and just go by the temp at the herms output, the liqour will be exactly the temp you want and the mash will lag by a few degrees.
I use a bit of both and wrap the mashtun in a dooner until sparging. The mash temp eventually equalises, but only at the end of mashout (78 degrees)

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Will look around to see if I have any pieces of foam to use. Can't increase the falsey as it's already the 12" kind and fits nicely in the keg.

Quick question - is there any problem with increasing the water/grain ratio for the mash? 2.6L/kg that beersmith has as a default meant that once the grain soaked up some of the water there really wasn't much free space. The last batch I increased it and the grain was free flowing. The higher ratio would allow me to increase the recirc through the herms so I can maintain the temps and even hit the right temps in the mash bed and reducing the risk of stuck mash. I do like the idea of half the water for the mash and the other half for the sparge.

Also a lower/higher mash temp doesn't affect the OG but does affect the FG right? Lower temp lower FG? or Lower temp higher FG?

Adjust liquor to grist ratio if you like and see if you notice any difference with your system. Have tried lots of ratios, use 2.75L/Kg for everything, gives me good efficiency on my system. Mash temps effects FG, by two tenths of **** all, a few gravity points between 69 and 64 not the great hullabaloo that brewing myth implies.
 
+1

Lower mash temp means that more fermentable and less unfermentable sugars are extracted during the mashing. Hence the lower FG (as the yeast eats up virtually everything).

I had a low masher, that finished at 1.002 - it wasn't infected, just very high in alcohol.

Conversely, I mashed a dark ale high to deliberately get a full body and lower alcohol.

Goomba


Another big thankx to all the reply posts, i have found answers to my low FG problems also e.g. aiming for 1060 only got 1042. would it be recommended to master batch sparging as a newby to AG as opposed to dumping a large hit of water in a no mashout situation?
Cheers
Holla :icon_cheers:
 
I put one of the cubes from the oktoberfest double batch. This brew I didn't get around to topping up with 10L of water at the end so the cubes were a bit shy. None the less the efficiency was in the low 50% rather than the 65% I had hoped for. So added some dex and LDME to help it along. The 2L starter of wyeast oktoberfest had nearly finished so chucked that in. Hopefully there'll be signs of life when I get home tonight.
 
would it be recommended to master batch sparging as a newby to AG as opposed to dumping a large hit of water in a no mashout situation?

Just different ways to skin a cat. I fly sparge every brew, but batch is easier and still capable of achieving equivalent efficiency. If I were starting again, I would probably stick with batch sparging for a while and focus on perfecting all other parts of my process before adding any complexity.
 
Another big thankx to all the reply posts, i have found answers to my low FG problems also e.g. aiming for 1060 only got 1042. would it be recommended to master batch sparging as a newby to AG as opposed to dumping a large hit of water in a no mashout situation?
Cheers
Holla :icon_cheers:

When I started AG BIAB, I had issues with lower efficiency. For me (and this is probably obsolete info for you), I used a pasta pot and sparged into that - it gave me a "false bottom" that allowed me to rest the grain bag and sparge through, adding the resulting liquor to the boil pot. I sparged the entire grain base with new hot water (77degrees), rather that use existing wort.

I'm not saying this is correct, but it did really increase my effiency, and from what I've seen, I have some of the best effiencies on here for BIAB.

Either way, experiment, it's all part of the fun.

Goomba
 
Quick question - is there any problem with increasing the water/grain ratio for the mash? 2.6L/kg that beersmith has as a default meant that once the grain soaked up some of the water there really wasn't much free space. The last batch I increased it and the grain was free flowing. The higher ratio would allow me to increase the recirc through the herms so I can maintain the temps and even hit the right temps in the mash bed and reducing the risk of stuck mash. I do like the idea of half the water for the mash and the other half for the sparge.

Hi, My First Post ... I know it has been a while - but when others give the same reply I would (or I don't know, which is more likely) I keep my mouth shut.

As I brew AG using BIAB I haven't much else to offer above all the great advice, except, when dealing with water to grain ratios. Are you taking into account the liquid that is being recirc'd? I mean, if the HERMS needs 5L of the water, then the ratio would be lower inside the MLT would it not? Maybe this adds to the lower efficiency?

PB.
 
Good first post PB. I had only thought today I should factor in the volume in the HERMS as that amount is effectively lost in the mash. And I'll need to remember to add about 5L to the strike water. That is probably the main reason as to why the first batches seemed to be very compact as there was 5L less in the mash than should be. Cheers mate
 
you wouldn't have 5ltrs of wort in your HERMS ?

If so that's a lot of coil ?
 
CD, Thanks and your welcome.

MXD, You never know, some hoses are long :rolleyes: . Seriously, I chose that number for example purposes only. If it is 5L then I agree.

PB
 
I have roughly 10m of 1/2" copper in the HERMS pot (double coil) plus about 2.5m silicone tubing and then a bit more copper for the return. So yeah it's roughly 5L. Hadn't really considered how much volume there was but it does make sense. Also means I need to adjust my evap rate down a bit as I'm not boiling off as much as I was when doing two pot boils. I'll just have to manually add 5L to HLT to cover the loss.
 
You could put a valve in at the low point of you system and pour out the remainder into a jug and tip it into the kettle for the boil... That is what I plan to do; collect all the precious wort I can. That is why my HERMS has a single coil with exit at the bottom so the whole system can gravity drain :icon_cheers:
 

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