Nelson Sauvin Bavarian Lager

[shamus]

I've just bought some Nelson Sauvin to give a go. My recipe at the moment will be:
1 Can Coopers Bavarian LAger
1 can Morgans Extra Pale Malt
20g @ 20min
20g @ 7min
and then dry hop with some more sauvin.

Would this work out OK? I'm tempted to add 20g at flameout too?

 

[drsmurto]

I've just bought some Nelson Sauvin to give a go. My recipe at the moment will be:
1 Can Coopers Bavarian LAger
1 can Morgans Extra Pale Malt
20g @ 20min
20g @ 7min
and then dry hop with some more sauvin.

Would this work out OK? I'm tempted to add 20g at flameout too?

20g @ 20 mins will add a significant amount of IBUs as NS is a high AA hop (12 and a bit from memory). I managed to add 36IBUs to a pils adding 20g of NS @ 20, 10 and 5 so you will be getitng close to that. Not sure how many IBUs in a bavarian lager but i would assume at least 15.

So it depends on what you are after. Getting flavour from a high AA hop can be a little tricky...... so maybe add 10 mins or later. Just my 2 c.

 

[mfdes]

NS is a strongly flavoured hop, and as mentioned there's the issue of excessive bitterness. I'd add 10g each at 10, 5 and 0 minutes plus dry hop...

Hopping schedules are just about the most subjective issue you could discuss, just about

MFS

 

[shamus]

Would a 20min boil add that much bitterness?

 

[chovain]

... NS is a high AA hop (12 and a bit from memory).

So it depends on what you are after. Getting flavour from a high AA hop can be a little tricky...... so maybe add 10 mins or later. Just my 2 c.

The NZ '07 crop is 11.9% (got the top from a my lovely new 450g bag sitting on my desk ). 20g for 20mins should only add about 8-10IBU (according to ProMash with Ranger).

I've only tasted one beer with NS (A commercial one, can't remember which), and it was very fruity. For me, some extra bitterness seems like the right thing to balance that out. Depending on other factors such as boil gravity, I'd personally go for 25g@20, and 10g@5 and 10 at flamout, but all the suggestions have my mouth watering. If this is a fairly concentrated boil (1.070+), I'd be upping that initial one to perhaps 30g.

No two brewers would be doing this the same way though, so the original suggestion is probably perfect for you .

 

[kevnlis]

I get exactly 16 IBU's with 20g for 20 min in a 4L boil with 500g of the extract, assuming a 23L batch and 2.2 kilos of total liquid extract in it.

 

[shamus]

I'll be doing a 23L batch and will have 3.2kg of Malt Extract. The Hops are 12.6%. How does that work out with the 4L boil?

 

[drsmurto]

The pils i made used 20g at 20 mins and beersmith tells me thats 18.6 IBU (assumes OG 1053).

The question you still need to answer is how bitter do you want this beer to be. Are you happy with 35-40 IBUs. If so, your hopping schedule with be fine. If thats too much then you need to either reduce the quantities of hops or boil them for a shorter time.

 

[Kleiny]

yep DrSmurto got a great point if you dont wont it so bitter you better revise your hop schedule and maybe drop the dry hop
unless your a hop head in that case go right for it

 

[shamus]

How much bitterness does dry hopping add? I might change the 20g to 10g, but was still thinknig of dry hopping. Wouldn;t dry hopping help mwith the awesoeme Sauvin aroma?

 

[drsmurto]

Ok, just cos i am bored at work i crunched a few numbers for you in beersmith. Its a bit of mucking about but since my records show that the bavarian lager kit works out at 21IBUs in 23L i can make a pretty good estimate. The dodgy part (IMO) is telling beersmith that you are only boiling a ceetain % of the extract and unless you weigh that out accurately, hop utilisation can vary quite markedly.

Anyway, i assumed you have 2 x 1.6kg tins. I then assumed you would use only 1/2 a tin in the 4L boil and add the rest at flameout. Note that i have used a evap rate of 15% since it son a stove top with an open pot.

20g of 12.6% AA Nelson Sauvin at 20 mins gives me 14 IBUs
20g of 12.6% AA Nelson Sauvin at 7 mins gives me 6 IBUs

So your total IBUs using this calc (and everyone who calcs this will no doubt get a variation but its a ballaprk figure) including the kit of bavarna lager = 41 IBUs.

Thats pretty high for something as light as a euro lager, its right up there with a czech pilsner.

Sure this is what you want?

If you took mfdes's advice and added 20g at 10, 5 and dry hopped you would shave 10 IBUs of this.

Its something that took my awhile to get my head around when brewing kits. You can easily over do the bitterness if you get a little generous with your hop additions.

Hope this helps

Cheers
DrSmurto

P.s. If you havent already bought the bavarian lager kit you could skip this, go 2 tins of unhopped extract and up your hops a touch and end up with 25-30 IBUs of real hop bitterness, not the isohop in the tin....... just a thought

EDIT - dry hopping adds 0 IBUs, only aroma. You could add another 20g dry hopping and gte the aroma you are after

 

[shamus]

thanks doc. Looks like I'll do the 10 and 5 with a decent dry hop. Where you mention the ibu of 41 and say thats up there witha Czech Pilsner, to give me an idea of what we're talking about do you know any commercial beers that would have this level of biterness?

 

[drsmurto]

My understanding is that Budvar and Pilsner Urquell, 2 very nice Bohemian pilsners, are around the 40IBU level. Both of these are available at Dan Murphys.

The BJCP guidelines suggest 35-45 IBUs for bohemian pils.

 

[shamus]

I've got a Budvar Premium LAger sitting in my fridge right now, is that the one you're talking about? If it is, then if I like it, then I'll probably be tempted to go back to the 20min boil!!!!

 

[drsmurto]

Is it this one?

 

[shamus]

its this one
So I'm guessing they're different

 

[discoloop]

They're both the same beer. Because of a naming conflict with the U.S Budweiser (which ripped off the name some decades ago) the name is different in some markets.

 

[Fourstar]

How much bitterness does dry hopping add? I might change the 20g to 10g, but was still thinknig of dry hopping. Wouldn;t dry hopping help mwith the awesoeme Sauvin aroma?

Rule of thumb i use - when dry hopping use 1:1 ration of Wort L : Hop g for moderate dry hopping.

i use a 1:2 ratio for a higher aroma

e.g for a 23L batch 40g hops would give you some serious nose characters. where as 20g would be subtle but noticable. very hard to caluate as there isnt any measurement for 'aroma' so IBU is out the window.

 

[drsmurto]

Yep, if you like the bitterness level of this beer your original plan is the one to go for. If you wanting to make something like Budvar you would need to use Saaz instead of NS.

 

[shamus]

cool, I'll try it later and see how I go