Need A Straight Answer!

[gumby0000]

Hey peeps, i dont know what to do anymore....!

I was just reading through a post then which stated that 26 deg or above is suicide!?!?

But i got other people telling me that high temp is good for the brew?

I just recently moved house and its hard for me to keep the temp low, as in i cant get any lower than 28deg. when i first moved in i made 2 brews both bubbled really fast, one turned out good i bottled it after 8 days, the other i went to bottle about 3 days after that and i found a skin on the top of it so i put it down the drain cause it smelt a bit strange too....

So what is it? brew long at low temp or quick at high temp? or something else? the brew i did bottle has a strange taste to it too, more like wine than beer....


HELP !

 

[sponge]

long and slow matey. 18-20'C is the ideal temp for ale yeasts. lagers need to be even cooler around 10-12'C.... and for a longer period of time once again.

 

[pokolbinguy]

But i got other people telling me that high temp is good for the brew?

Its about as good as keeping you milk at that temp!!

 

[boingk]

Yeah, gotta love the conflicting ideas of people. Really, brewing above 20'C won't produce particularly good beer - I've done batches at 24'C due to a heat wave and they were both horrible. As in, I can't drink half of one batch :S Its that bad.

Brew within temps as per sponge's post and you'll be fine. Try using a 100 can cooler with ice bricks in it to lower temps, or even just put a fan in the room and put wet t-shirts over the fermenters. Thats what I do and it works fine.

Cheers - boingk

 

[Sammus]

Be careful what you recommend fellow AHBers.

gumbybrew: The point theyre trying to make is that in general, the high quality ale yeasts most of us have learnt to use give you a better end result, but require a lower (18-20C) temp to do so. The yeast they put under the lid of a tin in the supermarket (ie the cheaper kits) are specially designed to be brewed in our warmer weather with no temp control, in fact (and I think it was PP who was part of this test and would agree with me) there was a blind taste test done of kits done with under-the-lid yeasts, comparing their recommended 25C brewing temp with the forums general consensus of 18C. The warmer one was better.

Now by better, I dont mean it was great The fact still remains that you will get a more tasty beer buying an 'aftermarket' yeast (say a safale us05 or s04) and sticking to 18-20C. Its worth all the effort you go to to keep the temp down - a lot of people sit the fermenter in a big deep tray of water with a towel draped over it into the water (the towel stays wet due to some kind of wicking thing) with a fan blowing on the whole shebang, and you can drop quite a few degrees that way. Ive read of others success just by rotating frozen milk bottles between the lid of the fermenter and the freezer.

If you cant manage to drop it down much lower, stick with the hardy yeast under the lid thats designed for those hi temps and you will be doing as best you can. But I say again, I strongly recommend you look into some kind of rudimentary temperature control!

Edit: Here's the thread where I first read about the ferment at 18C thing debunked. The first page or more have a lot of people humbly agreeing.

 

[Mantis]

Earlier this week I put down a stout and it came up at 26deg in the fermenter after topping up to final volume. I did the trick with the damp towel around the fermenter and turned on the ceiling fan. Cooled it down to 22 in an hour or two.
And I am using yeast that is meant for 18-22 as in Muntons and US-05.
Both fermenters are down to 18 now due to cooling general temps so its all good.
Damp towels and fans do work eh

 

[dr K]

The yeast they put under the lid of a tin in the supermarket (ie the cheaper kits) are specially designed to be brewed in our warmer weather with no temp control, in fact (and I think it was PP who was part of this test and would agree with me) there was a blind taste test done of kits done with under-the-lid yeasts, comparing their recommended 25C brewing temp with the forums general consensus of 18C. The warmer one was better.

Now..here really is one for the books!! Of all the recycled crap that flits around this has to be a caker.
For those who are not aware dried yeast is not like say, sundried tomatoes, or dried herbs or indeed dryed hops.
The manufacturers do not just stick a cake of yeast out in the sun or the the dehydrator they actually spemd a huge amount of money on plant and equipment to presrve a life, dried yeast is indeed a genuine example of the Lazarus Effect, dried yeast aint no chemical to start fermentaion, dried yaest is viable and living cells..we al knew that though...so..
There may be a dozen or so dried yeast manufacturers world wide and of those perhaps four who also produce brewing yeast, a very large part of I warrant would be destined to the thirsty breweries of this world, most if not all will some use some form of temperature cotrol..yes ??
Yet here have some unamed dried yeast producer going to a huge effort to produce an extra special yeast that is designed to work far outside normal brew condtions to cater for some fraction of a percent of its market.
And this dark company puts this genetically modified yeast in satchels that the Mars Kings stick under the lid....
it is indeed a worry.....

 

[lowtech]

Straight Answer........
Disregard all the crap on the tin label.If it's an ale yeast brew it @ 18/20c,.... no more or you will get an inferior result.

 

[Sammus]

Now..here really is one for the books!! Of all the recycled crap that flits around this has to be a caker.
For those who are not aware dried yeast is not like say, sundried tomatoes, or dried herbs or indeed dryed hops.
The manufacturers do not just stick a cake of yeast out in the sun or the the dehydrator they actually spemd a huge amount of money on plant and equipment to presrve a life, dried yeast is indeed a genuine example of the Lazarus Effect, dried yeast aint no chemical to start fermentaion, dried yaest is viable and living cells..we al knew that though...so..
There may be a dozen or so dried yeast manufacturers world wide and of those perhaps four who also produce brewing yeast, a very large part of I warrant would be destined to the thirsty breweries of this world, most if not all will some use some form of temperature cotrol..yes ??
Yet here have some unamed dried yeast producer going to a huge effort to produce an extra special yeast that is designed to work far outside normal brew condtions to cater for some fraction of a percent of its market.
And this dark company puts this genetically modified yeast in satchels that the Mars Kings stick under the lid....
it is indeed a worry.....

The link I posted is at least a tiny bit of evidence of people who have tested and tasted and are convinced the cheap shitty kit yeasts give better results at a higher temperature. All you did was pull some numbers from nowhere saying estimating there are 4 brewing yeast manufacturers world wide and point out that yeast is a living thing, as if thats news to anyone on here. Even if there did happen to be exactly four that made brewers yeast, I think they probably would have a use for an extremely resilient yeast that gives decent results without fermentation temperature control - namely all the companies that churn out so many cheap kits every year all around the world that want a yeast that will give their customers a half decent result for their $$ without spending extra on whacky contraptions for temperature control. I never claimed there was an un named rogue yeast producer "going to huge effort to produce an extra special yeast that is designed to work far outside normal brew condtions to cater for some fraction of a percent of its market" - that was all your inference. By your logic, why would they spend huge amounts of money and time making that sh!t yeast under a kit lid anyway? why the hell would anyone want to buy a safale yeast to replace it if its the high quality product you claim it is in the first place?

The evidence speaks for itself. All I did was point to some evidence of exactly what I said. How much of what you said do you actually know about? Sounds like you just added exactly nothing of use to the thread, sounds like you just recycling the same stories you (and all of us) were told originally and refuse to believe anything that might be different now your set in your ways. If you do know more than your pathetic insulting post leads on, then why not back up what you say.

 

[Sammus]

Straight Answer........
Disregard all the crap on the tin label.If it's an ale yeast brew it @ 18/20c,.... no more or you will get an inferior result.

This is exactly the kind of misleading information I was hoping to stop people giving. At least two posters above here have already stated that. Thats not a straight answer, it depends largely on the yeast used. Most of the cheaper kits' yeast ferments very cleanly and gives relatively low fruitiness and off flavours compared to say, brewing with US05 at the same temp.

If you go and buy a high quality kit, the chances are it will come with a good yeast - one that works best in the 18-20 range and so many people are saying. But thats not the be all and end all.

 

[ozpowell]

In general, I try to ferment my ales in the 18 to 20^oC range. However, ...

Don't forget about the good ole Belgian's - most abbey/trappist ales are fermented in the mid-to-high twenties (eg. Chimay Red is fermented around 27^oC).

Similarly, some London ale yeasts (eg. Fuller's - Wy1968) struggle to ferment out if the temperature is too low (I usually ferment this strain a little higher at 20 to 22^oC).

Hey Gumby - you wanted a straight answer right

Cheers,
Michael.

 

[andrewg1978]

You'll all like this -

When i first started out in january 08 I went into a home brew shop in Melbournes inner West (Without mentioning any names). Asked for some advice on brewing and given some good basic pointers. I then asked about heater pads as I had seen a friend using one a couple of years ago and was sold one on the spot this is during a 35deg heat wave . After reading a lot on temp control I cannot believe so called professionals would do this, almost unethical behavour and luck I was not turned away from homebrew very early on. Fortuantely out of about 7 brews have had only one bad and now are targeting 18deg mark.

I think it shows sales always come ahead of good advise/service, thank god for this forum otherwise i would still be using the heater!

NB, the last kit it just kegged has been the best so far brewed at 18deg!

 

[Screwtop]

Maybe time for some yeast facts.

Yeast loves warmer temps
Some yeast strains tolerate low temps
Yeast strains produce esters when fermenting
Yeast in general produces lower amounts of esters when fermented cool
Yeast companies provide optimum temperature ranges for their yeast strains, fermenting within these ranges will not produce undesirable esters for brewing.

Brewers control yeast flavour and aroma profiles by selecting yeast strains and fermenting the strain at a temp best suited to providing the yeast profile the brewer is looking for. If you were making a beer style which required a certain yeast strain and a fermentation temp of 28 then that would be perfectly acceptable.

All depends on what beer style you are looking to produce.

Remember it's not only yeast which like warm temps, warmer temps are optimal for spoilage organisms too. Reduting fermentation temps helps to reduce (slightly) the risk of infection, buys you a little more time.

Fermentation temps are all about CONTROL.

Screwy

 

[the_purple_dragon]

As we speak I'm heading to the garage to modify an old esky that was made from freezer room walls. I figure if I can fit the fermenter in I'll try the frozen bottles of water method.

Damn you Queensland temps, good for the social life, not for the brewing......

TPD

 

[andrewg1978]

As we speak I'm heading to the garage to modify an old esky that was made from freezer room walls. I figure if I can fit the fermenter in I'll try the frozen bottles of water method.

Damn you Queensland temps, good for the social life, not for the brewing......

TPD

I saw an idea a little while ago - using a 100can cooler bag. Looks very neat and tidy.

Have a look at http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...p;hl=cooler+bag

 

[braufrau]

Edit: Here's the thread where I first read about the ferment at 18C thing debunked. The first page or more have a lot of people humbly agreeing.

Are you sure that's the right thread sammus?
That thread must be *the* most controversial thread ever posted on AHB. Nasty, acrimonious bile flying left and right. If you miseed it, you might not get that message because it was heavily, and I mean, heavily, moderated.
Now just look at the first post ... it contains an assertian by PP that some of the best beers he's tasted were fermented hot, and he doesn't mention the yeast used. And the first page are certainly not people humbly agreeing ....

so which thread did you mean?

 

[rough60]

One thing I think people need to understand is that cosistant temp is an important factor too.
I'm not sure if wlp029 is high temp tolerant, but my keolsch, which is a renowed style to highlight any defects in a beer, was brewed in the high 20's, with wlp029, fermented out in 3 days and was judged in the first comp entered (NSW champs), within 2 weeks after bottling. It got 1st in the NSW champs, second in the AABC, and a third in the top twister, in it's class.
It probably would have turned out better/cleaner if I had fermented it at say 18deg.
So really if you don't have temp control, stick to yeasts that handle higher temps better, and try and keep the temp consistant.

 

[braufrau]

And then again the some trappist beers are brewed at quite extreme variations of T.
Chimay Red is pitched at 20C and rises to 28C. (see BLAM).

I'm beginning to think we are too afraid of esters. HWMBO is drinking my stout at the moment which sent me into a panic when it hit 24C.
The beer is great (IMO), but if it hadn't reached 24C it would probably be a different beer, possibly a lesser beer.

BLAM concludes
"Don't be afraid of higher fermentation temperatures, but cosider pitching lower than the low end of the recommended temperature range and allowing the temperature to rise throughout fermentation"

But of course he's not talking about the dry stuff under the kit lid!

 

[rough60]

True there are a small minority of styles that ramp the temp profile during fermentation, and there are some styles, like californain common, that are fermented well over the norm.
You would not be making a beer truely to style if certain temps weren't maintained.
Generally, the warmer the temp, the more esters are produced, some yeast strains exibit less of these esters at warmer temps and choosing a strain which suits the style and/or your pesonal taste, and is temp tolerant, would be imo the most suitable.

 

[rimrunner]

i was talking to the hbs guy today about this.

he said that nearly all the kits had ale yeasts. he says these yeasts go dormant at around 20C and under, prefering to be around 22-28c he also strongly hinted that a heating pad is a good idea at this time of year to keep it warmer during the night.

this is the kit yeasts were talking about. the morgans kit also recommend 22-30C temps.

i find it hard to believe that there are so many commercial kits out there that say the same thing. and yet are wrong...