Nc 10min Ipa

[argon]

Main advantage for me is saving water (I don't have a tank)

That's my one concern... Although after a bit of thought, I fill the HLT back up for reuse for next time, then the mash tun for hot cleaning, then what ever over that go into cubes which then go into the washing machine when i put a wash on... which always a good idea on a brewday to get me in the good books with Mrs argon.

 

[drsmurto]

Very true, I wouldn't advocate the use of a chiller if you were just running the water down the drain. Re-using it as Argon suggests. Let it cool down and use it on the garden (hops).

I'm fortunate to have rainwater tanks that allows me to return my chilling water back into the tanks via the nearest downpipe.

 

[jacknohe]

I'm about to move to fermenting in Willow 20L Jerry cans. I NC in the Jerry can and often add hops for APA or AIPA. But up till now I've poured the wort once cool into a barrel fermenter through a strainer (hop sock) and was able to remove the hop debris.

Has anyone had any issues like grassy flavours with leaving say 100g+ hops in the fermenter?

 

[black_labb]

I'm about to move to fermenting in Willow 20L Jerry cans. I NC in the Jerry can and often add hops for APA or AIPA. But up till now I've poured the wort once cool into a barrel fermenter through a strainer (hop sock) and was able to remove the hop debris.

Has anyone had any issues like grassy flavours with leaving say 100g+ hops in the fermenter?

I'd suggest that you would want to transfer the wort from the cube to something else so that you can aerate it. We go through alot of steps to remove as much oxygen from the wort before transferring into the cube and you need a fair amount for yeast health.

I don't think leaving the fermenting wort on the hops for 10 days will make a difference when it has been on the hops for weeks before starting the ferment.

 

[loikar]

OK, so pitched my London Ale II on this yesterday.

One thing a little concerning was the OG.... 1047 when I should be getting around the 1063..
I had it sitting upright on the concrete for about 48hours to before I pitched, and I drew off a small sample from the top using a pipette.

I'm "hoping" that it just separated a bit and it was just a little more watery on top.
I hit my preboil gravity with a few liters over, so it's about a 22L, but also sucked a shitload of trub in there too... so we'll see.

I'll wait until a krausen forms and then swap that plug for a tap, let it all settle again, suck a couple of liters out and use the hydrometer.
at least if I'm over 1047 I know my first reading was up the shitter.

BF

 

[drtomc]

Just did a variation today for a mate to use up some hops:

23L
Efficiency 75%
4.25kg trad ale (JW)
0.75kg Munich I (Best)
0.5kg Wheat malt (JW)
0.1kg Crystal (JW)
0.05kg Choc (JW)

60min BIAB mash @ 67C

15g Magnum (14.1%) @ 60min
80g Amarillo (9.3%) @ cube
15g Cascade (??) @ cube
10g Galaxy (??) @ cube

OG 1.056
Est FG 1.015
IBU 50

All went well until my mate's cube wouldn't seal. Bugger. Carefully poured it into my cube (round cube :huh. Sealed, but left behind some hop material. Hopefully most of the good stuff already in solution/suspension.

T.

Edit: I think he's going to ferment it with US-05.

 

[Phoney]

All went well until my mate's cube wouldn't seal. Bugger. Carefully poured it into my cube (round cube :huh. Sealed, but left behind some hop material. Hopefully most of the good stuff already in solution/suspension.

I had this problem a few times back when I used to no chill.

A few rounds of teflon tape around the thread did the trick.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

on the PU front

PUs in the case of beer, wort etc etc, are about the liquid, and the liquid being microbiologically stable. They aren't what you need to concern yourself with when you are filling an NC cube. The liquid you are filling your cube with has in fact had thousands of PU's already and is almost certainly as sterile as its ever going to get - you boiled it for an hour!!

So, worrying about PUs in the cube is pointless. What you need to worry about there, is sterilising the interior surface of the cube, sterilising anything you have in there like hops, hop bag etc.

You need enough time and temp, for the heat to not only kill the things on the surface, but also for the heat to penetrate any cracks, scratches, crevises (the threads on your tap if you have one fitted) and kill microbes in there, and you need to assume that its more or less going to be dry heat that has to do the trick, because its entirely possible that surface tension is keeping actual liquid out of fine scratches in the plastic.

Surface sterilisation and dry heat sterilisation are entirely different beasts to pasteurisation and the numbers aren't quite the same.

in the brewing industry, or at least the bit of it I am familiar with, we would conduct a hot water sterilisation at 80+C for 20 minutes or a hot caustic CIP at a little lower (the caustic provides some chemical back up to the heat) - and thats just to sanitise a fermenter etc.... Thats probably "more" than sufficient, but remember, for the purposes of NC, you want something much closer to sterile because you have no yeast to help control any bacterial growth, so you need no bacteria at all, not just less of them.

Now, No-Chill obviously does a sufficient job in most cases, but people still do get infected cubes - so its plainly not so far in advance of the requirements that you can afford to be careless. The hotter you can get your wort into the cube and the longer it stays hot - the safer you are.

That doesn't mean that you will get an infection, or even that the risk is particularly high if you do this stuff a few degrees cooler. But it is more risk - and for me, personally, if I wasn't pretty sure that the liquid temperature in my NC cube wasn't at or close to 80C for at least 15 or so minutes after I filled it, i would consider it too much risk.

Your tolerance for risk may well be different to mine though, so YMMV.

TB

 

[loikar]

This went into the keg last night.

As I said previously, I came in 16 points under.
This was due to my evaporation rate being @ 37% in beersmith for some bizarre reason.

Anyway, started at 1047, finished at 1015, so it's more of a 10min APA @ 4.2% ABV

How did it taste?
Well, it's still pretty green and I don't think it got to the 59 IBU's I was expecting. I would possibly say high 30's, low 40's but then again, IBU's is a perception thing.
It did have a nice malt profile up front thanks to the caramunich 1 which fell off the back of the tongue nicely and the mouthfeel was slightly coating and clean finishing.

The Hops?
bitterness is there, flavour is lacking, aroma is reminiscent of a hoppy beer.
I might be a bit premature since it's still very young and has no bubbles yet, but Having Chilled beers previously, I can say that cubing beer takes away some flavour and a lot of aroma from beers.
Maybe not so much "Takes away" but certainly rounds it all off and mutes the flavour and aroma.

Not saying that it's a bad beer, but if I had used 200g of hops in the last 10min and chilled it, there would have been a bigger smack in the face from the hops.

Will post back in a week when it's chilled and carbed up.

Cheers,

BF

 

[Yob]

is that a food grade rubber band I see there?

noice :unsure:

 

[loikar]

is that a food grade rubber band I see there?

noice :unsure:

yeah, because rubber bands MUST be food grade if their holding stainless steel mesh onto a PVC tube that contains 18c wort for 3 minutes otherwise their going to leech toxic and cacogenic poisons all into my beer and ruin it.

let that be a warning to you all, if you have EVER touched a rubber band and not immediately washed the toxins it emits from your hands, you can definitely run the risk of toxic poisoning!
Don't even THINK of putting one in your mouth!
I made a grave mistake by using non food grade rubber bands to hold mesh to my PVC tube and have put myself and my beer at risk, pay no further attention to me!

People like the quoted above are clearly veritable Genius's and when it comes to rubber bands, you should definitely consult them before exposing yourself to such harm

Thanks for the insight iamozziyob, clearly you sir, are rowing with more than just one oar.

BF

 

[loikar]

OK, so just over a week in the Keg....

Very surprised at the result.
While it's not as hoppy as my previously chilled beers, it's actually coming up ok.
The bubbles have definitely brought out the hop profile some more and it's starting to balance out ok.
A bit blurry:

In fact, I was happy enough to do it again yesterday with 270g of 2010 US Cascade plugs in the cube only.
Made it a 10min boil addition in BeerSmith but im expecting IBU's to come up around the high 40's low 50's

Recipe Specifications

--------------------------

Batch Size: 20.00 L	  

Boil Size: 26.86 L

Estimated OG: 1.055 SG

Estimated Color: 19.6 EBC

Estimated IBU: 66.1 IBU

Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 %

Boil Time: 60 Minutes



Ingredients:

------------

Amount		 Item									Type		 % or IBU	  

4.20 kg		Pale Malt, Golden Promise (Thomas FawcetGrain		84.0 %		

0.50 kg		Caramalt (Joe White) (30.0 EBC)		 Grain		10.0 %		

0.30 kg		Crystal Malt - 60L (Thomas Fawcett) (118Grain		6.0 %		 

270.00 gm	  Cascade - CUBE [5.40%]  (10 min)		Hops		 66.1 IBU	  

80.00 gm	   Cascade [5.40%]  (Dry Hop 10 days)	  Hops		  -			

80.00 gm	   Cascade [5.40%]  (Dry Hop 5 days)	   Hops		  -			

1 Pkgs		 California Ale V (White Labs #WLP051)   Yeast-Ale				  





Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge

Total Grain Weight: 5.00 kg

----------------------------

Name				Description					   Step Temp	 Step Time	 

Mash In			 Add 13.04 L of water at 71.1 C	64.0 C		60 min		





Notes:

------

OG: 1051

FG: 

IBUs: All Cube Hopped

Mash at 64C

90 minute boil

270g of 2010 US Cascade plugs in the cube

80g Cascade dry hop  for 10 days

80g Cascade dry hop  for 5 days

Wyeast 1272 American Ale II

Ferment at 18c

Used a 1L Starter for this one.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So 430g of hops in total B)

So we'll see how hoppy this ******* gets

BF

 

[MarkBastard]

Would you suggest that Cube + Dry hop would be good?

 

[loikar]

Would you suggest that Cube + Dry hop would be good?

I'm thinking that based on the last one, it would be a good thing just to boost the aroma...
the 160g I'll be dropping in may be a little excessive, and i'm thinking it'll need a few weeks longer in the keg to settle out the "grass".
But since I want flavour and a "smack in the face" aroma to be prominent on this one i'm hoping it'll do the job.

So short answer = Yes

BF

 

[stux]

Made it a 10min boil addition in BeerSmith but im expecting IBU's to come up around the high 40's low 50's

Interesting page by QldKev on why No Chill hop additions should be calculated/shifted as 10 min additions and not 15 min
http://members.iinet.net.au/~julielonghurst/nochill.php

 

[loikar]

Interesting page by QldKev on why No Chill hop additions should be calculated/shifted as 10 min additions and not 15 min
http://members.iinet.net.au/~julielonghurst/nochill.php

Yep I did read that when starting this experiment.

The thing is there is so much confliction in so many elements of home brewing, and not knocking QldKev's thoughts on this, but I find its best to work it out for yourself and what works best for you. the biggest hurdle is the "What If I make a shit Beer I don't want\Can't Drink"
Get over that and you can start trial and error work to really work out what does what and when.

Up until the first all cube hopped beer I did, I wasn't really satisfied with no-chill\Slow-chill.
What I'm trying to do now is get a no-chilled beer as close to my previously chilled beers as possible and then compare recipes etc.
If this latest one is anything to go by, the trick will be to throw a shitload of hops in the cube and dry hop it's tits off.

I'll have to work it out, but in the long run, it'll probably be cheaper just to buy a chiller or just drink malt driven beers.

BF

 

[loikar]

Thought I would just update those that were interested in this thread.

This beer is coming up a treat despite the **** up.
Nice cascade aroma and flavour coming through but not killing the caramunich. it's starting to balance out nicely.
A couple of faults:
The bitterness. If I was to do this again I would have a 10-15g 10min addition or even a 5-10g first wort addition, it needs more IBU's, maybe about 10-15 units.
It's a little thin in body, but I put this down the my evaporation rate **** up.

This method will be the way I will do all my NC beers from now on. I think it's the closest I can get for flavour and aroma compared to a chilled beer.
The downside?, you need double the hops to achive the same\similar hop hit.

that being said, my next one will be an IPA, have a mash hop, 15min as well as a 0min addition, and the rest in the cube.
will be chasing 75ish IBU's and 570g of hops in total :icon_cheers:

BF

 

[keifer33]

Your experience is almost identical to mine BeerFingers. I have started to put a small bittering addition to just guarantee that you get some bitterness. I love hops so using more isn't a bad thing.

 

[sponge]

So would this method be comparable to a 5min addition by what youre saying about the lack of IBU's as opposed to the 15min or so that was predicted?

Definitely giving it a go on the next brew though

Cheers for the updates BF



Sponge

 

[loikar]

Your experience is almost identical to mine BeerFingers. I have started to put a small bittering addition to just guarantee that you get some bitterness. I love hops so using more isn't a bad thing.

Kinda...
Coming from someone who used to chill, and am now no-chilling the same recipes.
The money you spend on throwing 250g+ of hops into each brew could well be spent on a $130 chill plate allowing you to get the same\similar amount of flavour and aroma for less hops.
For my last all cube hopped brew, I've used an extra 130g of cascade to boost the flavour and aroma.

I will keep experimenting with this as my aim is to replicate as close as possible my Epic Pale Clone to the same as when it was chilled.
once I get it how I remember it, i'll brew the original recipe again and chill it to compare.

Cheers,

BF