Nc 10min Ipa

[loikar]

Just a question, how long do you normally let your wort sit after flameout? I normally go for 10min (or until the convection currents stop), whirlpool, let sit until it stops swirling, then transfer.

Would this method need to be done any faster than that to ensure theres not a substantial loss of temperature? I would be thinking not seeing as though the wort would retain its heat for quite a while after flameout, but since youve tried this method on a number of occasions, i just thought id ask the cheeky question

Cheers,



Sponge

Kinda debatable...

If you don't mind break material in your cube, just whirlpool after the boil for 10min and transfer to the cube.
Alternatively you can wait for the thermals to settle, whirlpool and than then transfer, but you then run more of a risk of pasteurisation fail.

I basically whirlpool straight after the boil, have a ciggy and a beer and then crack the tap a little bit to transfer slowly, leaving as much break material as I can behind.

but it's up to you really, anything over 74degC for 1 minute will give you full pasturisation... PU units below:

1 minute @ 46 deg C (115 deg F) = 0.01 PU
1 minute @ 53 deg C (127 deg F) = 0.10 PU
1 minute @ 60 deg C (140 deg F) = 1.00 PU
1 minute @ 67 deg C (153 deg F) = 10.0 PU
1 minute @ 74 deg C (165 deg F) = 100.0 PU

http://www.redpostltd.com/support/science#PU

BF

 

[WarmBeer]

I think this method would work, but it just seems a though you have a 2 day, 2 stage brew day.
I'm looking at having 1 brew day in the shortest time possible and for $130, i may as well just buy a plate chiller when compared to this method.

personally, I would rather have 1 brew day (inclusive of pitching my yeast), have no hop schedule adjustments and make beer as the recipe is intended.

Like I said, this will probably work well, but involves a bit more dicking around.

BF

You say "tomato", I say "tomato"... (That differentiation doesn't work so well with the written word)

Yes, there is an additional process at pitching time, but it works well with my brewing process. I brew once the ankle-biters have gone to bed, so the last thing I want to be doing is hanging around after flameout, waiting for my wort to come down to pitching temperature (how long does it take you to get it to lager pitching temps?).

I whirlpool, wait for the cone to settle, drain into the cube, lay it on it's side, and I can be in bed, snuggling up to the wife within 20 minutes of flameout.

 

[sponge]

Kinda debatable...

If you don't mind break material in your cube, just whirlpool after the boil for 10min and transfer to the cube.
Alternatively you can wait for the thermals to settle, whirlpool and than then transfer, but you then run more of a risk of pasteurisation fail.

I basically whirlpool straight after the boil, have a ciggy and a beer and then crack the tap a little bit to transfer slowly, leaving as much break material as I can behind.

I guess the break material can settle out during CCing so thats not really an issue. plus i dont strive for perfectly clear beers... most seem to clear up alright after a week at 2' then a week in the keg.

i might have to give this a go, just FO, WP, 10min, then transfer onto the hops in the cube.

should still be nice and hot for pasteurisation purposes, along with hop utilisation.



Sponge

 

[loikar]

You say "tomato", I say "tomato"... (That differentiation doesn't work so well with the written word)

Yes, there is an additional process at pitching time, but it works well with my brewing process. I brew once the ankle-biters have gone to bed, so the last thing I want to be doing is hanging around after flameout, waiting for my wort to come down to pitching temperature (how long does it take you to get it to lager pitching temps?).

I whirlpool, wait for the cone to settle, drain into the cube, lay it on it's side, and I can be in bed, snuggling up to the wife within 20 minutes of flameout.

I don't brew lagers, mainly due to fridge space and that i'm an alcoholic who anguishes at the thought of a brew sitting in the fridge for 6 weeks CC'ing.
But when chilling an ale, I can smack it before brewing and pitch it before I go to bed, usually about 20c and my STC-1000 is set to 18c.

I totally get that, horses for courses, and having young children myself, I get what you mean.

for me, I only brew on the weekends when chilling due to the extra hour-ish it adds and give the wife plenty of notice. but when NCing I can knock a 20L brew out in just under 4 hours and can do that after work during the week and still have time to read the kids a story.

When Chilling, I always chill before the whirlpool.
When NC'ing I whirlpool at flame out for about 15min then slowly transfer to the cube.

Like I said, I think the small boil the next day will work well for the beer, but for $130, personally I can get a plate chiller and not have to worry about anything the next day.


BF

 

[keifer33]

I guess the break material can settle out during CCing so thats not really an issue. plus i dont strive for perfectly clear beers... most seem to clear up alright after a week at 2' then a week in the keg.

i might have to give this a go, just FO, WP, 10min, then transfer onto the hops in the cube.

should still be nice and hot for pasteurisation purposes, along with hop utilisation.



Sponge

From the end if the boil I leave for a few mind, but quick 5min whirlpool then drain. I use a pickup tube aswell and there is still a decent amount of break material left behind. The method does require some tradeoff with break material getting in the cube.

 

[going down a hill]

Kinda debatable...

If you don't mind break material in your cube, just whirlpool after the boil for 10min and transfer to the cube.
Alternatively you can wait for the thermals to settle, whirlpool and than then transfer, but you then run more of a risk of pasteurisation fail.

I basically whirlpool straight after the boil, have a ciggy and a beer and then crack the tap a little bit to transfer slowly, leaving as much break material as I can behind.

but it's up to you really, anything over 74degC for 1 minute will give you full pasturisation... PU units below:

1 minute @ 46 deg C (115 deg F) = 0.01 PU
1 minute @ 53 deg C (127 deg F) = 0.10 PU
1 minute @ 60 deg C (140 deg F) = 1.00 PU
1 minute @ 67 deg C (153 deg F) = 10.0 PU
1 minute @ 74 deg C (165 deg F) = 100.0 PU

http://www.redpostltd.com/support/science#PU

BF

That makes it easier to know what timeline I can play with after flameout. 74c is the magic number, Cheers

 

[loikar]

That makes it easier to know what timeline I can play with after flameout. 74c is the magic number, Cheers

True, but I would be rounding that up to 80c just for a precaution,

 

[WarmBeer]

Be interesting to see how much actual wort you get into the fermenter, 200gm of hops if going to soak up a whole lotta fluid.

I tried majorly cube hopping once, although not to the same extent, and ended up losing around 1.5 - 2 litres of wort, as I didn't want to pour a heap of gunky hop matter into my fermenter. I tried sieving it through a fine mesh, but that blocked up pretty quickly.

Will be watching with interest.

 

[going down a hill]

True, but I would be rounding that up to 80c just for a precaution,

For sure, it demystifies the pasteurising process, which is a good thing to know.

 

[argon]

Be interesting to see how much actual wort you get into the fermenter, 200gm of hops if going to soak up a whole lotta fluid.

I tried majorly cube hopping once, although not to the same extent, and ended up losing around 1.5 - 2 litres of wort, as I didn't want to pour a heap of gunky hop matter into my fermenter. I tried sieving it through a fine mesh, but that blocked up pretty quickly.

Will be watching with interest.

I'd suggest pouring it all in, then double dropping before 24hrs to get a fair bit of the hop debris out. Added benefit of more aeration and cold break exclusion.

 

[loikar]

Be interesting to see how much actual wort you get into the fermenter, 200gm of hops if going to soak up a whole lotta fluid.

I tried majorly cube hopping once, although not to the same extent, and ended up losing around 1.5 - 2 litres of wort, as I didn't want to pour a heap of gunky hop matter into my fermenter. I tried sieving it through a fine mesh, but that blocked up pretty quickly.

Will be watching with interest.

Considering I ferment in the same cube, that's going to be tough to answer.

I keg, so I allow up to 2L to remain in the fermenter in my measurements when transferring to keg.

Although looking at it, there's going to be a fair whack of gunk in the bottom after ferment....

<_<

BF

 

[loikar]

For sure, it demystifies the pasteurising process, which is a good thing to know.

I don't want to start a shit fight, but one of the things the "old timer" AHB members taught me when reading this forum was "check the facts".

This being a prime example.

1 minute at 74c and you're done.
Not 15 minutes at 90c

BF

 

[Aus_Rider_22]

Be interesting to see how much actual wort you get into the fermenter, 200gm of hops if going to soak up a whole lotta fluid.

I tried majorly cube hopping once, although not to the same extent, and ended up losing around 1.5 - 2 litres of wort, as I didn't want to pour a heap of gunky hop matter into my fermenter. I tried sieving it through a fine mesh, but that blocked up pretty quickly.

Will be watching with interest.

I started getting annoyed with having so much hop debris hanging around and making it into the fermenter so I now use a fine mesh bag that stays "open" and lets the boiling wort flow through the contained hops. This is it in action

Obviously this wouldn't work for a cube addition but I will using 180gm of hops in a similar mesh bag that will be tied up so the hop sludge will be contained as much as possible. Anyone else used a bag to contain the hops for a big NC cube addition?

 

[loikar]

Anyone else used a bag to contain the hops for a big NC cube addition?

I don't really care about what makes it to the fermenter.
I care more about what makes it to the keg.

Ve ave vays ov making it vork!

 

[argon]

Anyone else used a bag to contain the hops for a big NC cube addition?

I did it one time...and will not be doing it again. Major PITA to get the swollen hop bag back out of the neck of the cube. Better off just letting into the fermentor. It won't cause any problems.

 

[drsmurto]

You say "tomato", I say "tomato"... (That differentiation doesn't work so well with the written word)

Yes, there is an additional process at pitching time, but it works well with my brewing process. I brew once the ankle-biters have gone to bed, so the last thing I want to be doing is hanging around after flameout, waiting for my wort to come down to pitching temperature (how long does it take you to get it to lager pitching temps?).

I whirlpool, wait for the cone to settle, drain into the cube, lay it on it's side, and I can be in bed, snuggling up to the wife within 20 minutes of flameout.

Additional time, in my brewery, is a fallacy.

It takes the same amount of time to run the wort into a cube as it does to run it to a fermenter via a plate chiller.

I'm (now) in the same boat, although mine doesn't have teeth so the biting thing isn't an issue (yet).......

If i am rushed for time i might shave 30 mins of mashing and/or boiling, they are much longer steps than chilling at 90 mins a piece.

 

[argon]

It takes the same amount of time to run the wort into a cube as it does to run it to a fermenter via a plate chiller.

+1... As a long time no chiller and 2 time plate chiller I found the same and was surprised at how similar the timing was. I'd always been told it takes longer.

 

[benno1973]

http://www.redpostltd.com/support/science#PU

That's a pretty interesting article, but where does it say that you need 100PU? The pasteurisation units mentioned are all for finished beer I assume, and anything less acidic or with more sugars (or both as in the case of unfermented beer) would need much higher pasteurisation. I don't doubt that 100PU would do it, just wondering where that is referenced.

 

[loikar]

That's a pretty interesting article, but where does it say that you need 100PU? The pasteurisation units mentioned are all for finished beer I assume, and anything less acidic or with more sugars (or both as in the case of unfermented beer) would need much higher pasteurisation. I don't doubt that 100PU would do it, just wondering where that is referenced.

http://www.barry-wehmiller-company.com/con...b/Glossary.aspx

Is where the Temp Vs PU's is from.

My assumption, is that it's directly related to temperature Vs bacteria and the medium is negated.

 

[manticle]

+1... As a long time no chiller and 2 time plate chiller I found the same and was surprised at how similar the timing was. I'd always been told it takes longer.

I've no chilled for most of my ag brewing time but have tried using a plate chiller. The advantages of no-chilling for me are definitely not time (otherwise I wouldn't step mash or decoct half my brews) and I'd agree that the difference with plate chilling is minimal.

It does give one more piece of equipment to clean and sanitise but I think that's a pretty small deal for most competent brewers unless you have a nasty wild yeast on the property.

Main advantage for me is saving water (I don't have a tank) and being able to prep a proper starter using identical wort. If starter fails, I can make another one without having to pitch US05 on my freshly made tripel.