My Rogers Clone Recipe Tastes Great

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Sounds like you just need to put the container in the same room as your brew and you'd get the colour!!!

 

[O-beer-wan-kenobi]

I just had a Rodgers at LC in Freo. To me it definitely tastes like there is crystal malt in there. I couldn't taste much/any roast so maybe thy do add something for colour adjustment?
Also i could taste galaxy hops like a late addition or dry?

I have given it a go with the recipe below. Will see how it tastes and adjust from there. The ingredients are what I have in stock.
Turned out pretty dark in the fermenter so im not sure If my colour is dark or the 40 EBC they give on the website is higher than it actually is. Looks like a tad darker than a red ale so I wouldn't say it is 40 EBC.

Style: Mild Ale
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 68.45 l
Post Boil Volume: 66.56 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 60.00 l   
Bottling Volume: 58.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.043 SG
Estimated Color: 35.2 EBC
Estimated IBU: 29.6 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %

Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------  
8.71 kg               Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.9 EBC) 74.8 %        
0.83 kg               Carared (Weyermann) (47.3 EBC) 7.1 %         
0.83 kg               Dark Crystal (Bairds) (240.0 EBC) 7.1 %         
0.83 kg               Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) 7.1 %         
0.22 kg               Carafa II (811.6 EBC) 1.9 %         
0.22 kg               Pale Chocolate Malt (Bairds) (500.0 EBC) 1.9 %         
115.11 g              Styrian Goldings [5.00 %] - Boil 60.0 mi Hop 29.6 IBUs                        
110.00 g              Cascade Flowers [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min  Hop   
1.3 pkg               Whitbread Ale (Wyeast Labs #1099)           


Mash Schedule:3 Step Mash
Total Grain Weight: 11.64 kg
----------------------------  
Protein Rest      Add 33.58 l of water at 59.3 C          55.0 C        10 min        
Saccharification  Add 0.01 l of water and heat to 69.0 C  69.0 C        45 min        
Rest              Heat to 72.0 C over 10 min              72.0 C        15 min        
Mash Out          Add 0.00 l of water at 78.0 C           78.0 C        0 min

 

[Brewman_]

Just noticed this thread. I love this beer.

a year or so back a mate's wife approached me to make a mid strength beer for a party. She handed me an empty bottle of Rogers and said 'Like this".

I made the beer to match Rogers and the results were pretty good. I won't talk about the hops because I deliberately changed them. But the malt profile / colour / ABV % was bloody close to a rogers.

Interestingly was asked to make the same beer again on the weekend by someone else.

Here's the Malt bill I used. The Key ingredient is the TF UK Mild Ale Malt, it's great for English Milds and this beer it's perfect.

Pale Ale (Perl) Bairds 38.4%
Mild Ale (TF-UK) 36.3%
Munich Light (Wey) 20.9%
Dark Crystal (TF-UK) 2.8%
Pale Chocolate (TF-UK) 1.7%

Mashed at 68.
This was a cracker and just the beer they wanted for the party.

I plan to make this again as soon as the TF Mild is back in the country, maybe 3 or 4 weeks away.
Will revise the hops and go back to hitting the rogers hop profile next time.

Steve

 

[iJosh]

Ok, so the 22% crystal idea is out. I thought chrisluki was implying this was the 'secret' lol

I wonder if the order of ingredients listed in the pic is an indication of quantities...? Most to least?

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

I wonder if the order of ingredients listed in the pic is an indication of quantities...? Most to least?

I made that assumption when having my stab at it. I've got 3 weeks until brew day for this, so <insert .gif of Michael Jackson eating popcorn in Thriller>

 

[chrisluki]

Hey guys

I am going to have a play around with the recipe and switch to this grain bill

2.4kg Pale (60.8%)
0.5kg Wheat (12.7%)
0.35kg Cara-Pils (8.9%)
0.3kg Crystal 240 EBC (7.6%)
0.3kg Vienna (7.6%)
0.1kg Chco Malt (2.5%)

Backing off the 22% Crystal should fix the astringency and using some Choc should help me with the 40 EBC colour. I was going to go with a Caramel colouring solution that spirits distillers use, as I am not sure about this mysterious "malt extract" that is used. So while there is no Crystal or Choc in the original recipe, there must be something like that in the extract.

I am gonna call this brew "The Tribute", cos this is not the greatest brew in the world...

See what i did there!

Can't wait to brew this one!

Cheers

Chris

 

[technobabble66]

Just downed one of these babies tonight, & FWIW i'd guess the "crystal" flavour we're detecting is more from the EKG.
I've found that over the last few years that the "crystal"-like caramel flavour i detect in English bitters etc is probably coming from EKG used late in the boil. It seems to bring out a caramel-like flavour in the malts. I've gotta admit i would've thought there's still a bit of crystal in there that the EKG is highlighting, but maybe it's all purely EKG.
As an example, i've currently doing an ESB that (mid fermentation) seems to have a particularly strong caramel flavour to it. Yes i've used crystal, but i've used crystal in lots of brews without the same flavour. But what is particularly different is 1) the heavy use of late EKG and 2) a separate boil to reduce 3L to 0.5L. One of those two seems to have done the trick. Roger's officially uses EKG, so i'm guessing a fair bit of it is coming from that, given its the only common factor.
2c

 

[bigmunchez]

I had a play around with trying to clone Rogers a couple of years ago using only the malts on the blackboard. The best attempt involved taking a couple of litres of the first runnings and reducing/caramelising them in a separate pot and then adding them back to the boil. It definitely gave a 'dark crystal' character to the malt profile. If I were to try again today I'd use about 40% pale, 40% vienna, 10% wheat, 5-10% carapils and caramelise about 3L of first runnings to a dark syrup.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

"extra toasted caramalt" according to this pic I pinched from another thread

 

[Blind Dog]

Just downed one of these babies tonight, & FWIW i'd guess the "crystal" flavour we're detecting is more from the EKG.
I've found that over the last few years that the "crystal"-like caramel flavour i detect in English bitters etc is probably coming from EKG used late in the boil. It seems to bring out a caramel-like flavour in the malts. I've gotta admit i would've thought there's still a bit of crystal in there that the EKG is highlighting, but maybe it's all purely EKG.
As an example, i've currently doing an ESB that (mid fermentation) seems to have a particularly strong caramel flavour to it. Yes i've used crystal, but i've used crystal in lots of brews without the same flavour. But what is particularly different is 1) the heavy use of late EKG and 2) a separate boil to reduce 3L to 0.5L. One of those two seems to have done the trick. Roger's officially uses EKG, so i'm guessing a fair bit of it is coming from that, given its the only common factor.
2c

I'd put my money on the reduction from 3L to 0.5L as the main reason for the caramel flavour rather than the EKG itself. Agree that late EKG does seem to round out the malt flavours and emphasis caramel, but I've found they need to be there in the 1st place for it to work. YMMV etc.

 

[O-beer-wan-kenobi]

"extra toasted caramalt" according to this pic I pinched from another thread

LC pale & rogers.jpg

Im sure there is crystal/caramalt in there.
It would be good if anyone in the know could tell us whats in the recipe and put this to bed.

How about the yeast. Does anyone know the strain they use?

 

[technobabble66]

I'd put my money on the reduction from 3L to 0.5L as the main reason for the caramel flavour rather than the EKG itself. Agree that late EKG does seem to round out the malt flavours and emphasis caramel, but I've found they need to be there in the 1st place for it to work. YMMV etc.

Yeah, tried my ESB a bit more this morning & i think i'd agree.
The EKG is working in there, but i suspect there's a lot coming from the caramelised reduction; and as you say, that that's what the EKG is really working on.

 

[technobabble66]

"extra toasted caramalt" according to this pic I pinched from another thread

So what, you think they toast the carapils to get it dark? Why not just use CaraBoh or Med crystal, etc?
When were the 2 pics of the boards taken? - maybe they originally did the extra toasted thing, then decided it was easier to use carapils and add colouring agent.

I'd probably go with the caramelised reduction thing to get that "crystal" flavour.
But surely a commercial brewery wouldn't do this --> wouldn't it cost a bomb to significantly reduce/caramelise a commercial volume of wort??

 

[Liam_snorkel]

I don't reckon they'd do a caramelised reduction at a commercial scale.

nah, I'd guess they get some dark crystal made to their specs. I'd go with a combo of carared & caraaroma or something like that if I were to have a crack at it.

 

[technobabble66]

Yep & Yep
I'd be tempted to go a little of [Med Crystal or Amber] + [CaraBoh or CaraAroma] ... plus a caramelisation reduction. Hopefully that covers both the caramel "crystal" flavour plus the toasty element.

 

[manticle]

Overcomplexmrtechnobabblesir.

Try increasing the boil by an hour. You'd be surprised how much rich crystal type flavour a 3hr boil will bring to a 100% maris grist.
However you do it though; do one or two things at a time, rather than seven.

 

[technobabble66]

Overcomplexmrtechnobabblesir.

Try increasing the boil by an hour. You'd be surprised how much rich crystal type flavour a 3hr boil will bring to a 100% maris grist.
However you do it though; do one or two things at a time, rather than seven.

Silly manticle, that's far too simple!
h34r:

On a more serious note, yeah, i think i've got way too many spec grains - i can't resist using all of them. All at once.
However, i'd still suggest there's a certain toasty element in the Roger's that doesn't seem to be addressed with the grain bill of Pale + Wheat + Carapils + Vienna. Is there anything in there that'd give a toasty flavour?
So at the risk of grossly overcomplicating the recipe, i'd probably go with a whisker of CaraAroma (as per Liam's suggestion) plus the long boil or reduction. How's that sound?

 

[Blind Dog]

I don't reckon they'd do a caramelised reduction at a commercial scale.

it.

Don't really see why not, it's done by a number of commercial breweries in the UK (Sam smiths being one)

 

[goatus]

I was listening to a Jamil show "Brewing with style" podcast this morning and it brought up something relevant to this thread.

It was on IIPAs, but they had the brewers from stone and beechwood on, and they began discussing crystal, and their general adversion to using it except in small amounts. They both agreed however the only time they do use big amounts of crystal was in their session beers (especially < 4% ABV hoppy beers) - they both agree that their house session beers they use a "fairly large amount of crystal 120" and mash very high. Also discussed was using english crystal for less sweetness, more flavour than the US crystal. The OP might be onto something with the large crystal bills for smaller beers. Will have to try it out myself.

LIsten to the show here. The great 5 min discussion on Crystal begins at 43:30 if you want to skip to it.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Giving this a crack on Sunday, will get it fermenting as fast as possible and going to keg half the batch and bottle half. Will post results here. Hopefully at the very least I get a tasty mild to offer peeps!