My Rogers Clone Recipe Tastes Great

[iJosh]

Yeah I would've thought so. Maybe they're using Chocolate Wheat?

 

[technobabble66]

Word on the street is that when most commercial breweries list their ingredients/recipes they accidentally leave out one or two elements ... just for a bit of a laugh.
"Hey bob, remember years ago when we were telling everyone Rogers was just ale, Vienna and wheat malts? What a hoot! Kept those pesky home brewers guessing for years!!" etc etc.

One explanation suggested is crystal is made from ale malt, so for example an English bitter could be listed as being 100% ale malt, even if it actually contained MO, dark crystal and biscuit malts. Esp if they buy just ale malt and do their own kilning, etc.

Thanks v much for posting that photo, by the way. It's definitely great to see most if not all the ingredients!

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Inspired, thanks guys! Had this in Fremantle on tap and was the standout beer even during a boozy day! Really want to be able to offer guests something less ABV% and also have some bottles for myself when driving

What do you think of the below have incorporated a few things I've read on the forum and this thread...

Ignore the yeast nutrient and irish moss amounts, i just have it in there to notify me on the timer when to add



Roger Mild
Mild
Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 24.0
Total Grain (kg): 4.650
Total Hops (g): 40.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.042 (°P): 10.5
Final Gravity (FG): 1.013 (°P): 3.3
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 3.74 %
Colour (SRM): 19.6 (EBC): 38.5
Bitterness (IBU): 24.1 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 60
Grain Bill
----------------
2.000 kg Pale Malt (43.01%)
2.000 kg Vienna (43.01%)
0.500 kg Carapils (Dextrine) (10.75%)
0.150 kg Midnight Wheat (3.23%)
Hop Bill
----------------
20.0 g East Kent Golding Pellet (4.5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
10.0 g Cascade Pellet (6.5% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
10.0 g Galaxy Pellet (11.9% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
Misc Bill
----------------
5.0 g Irish Moss @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
1.0 g Yeast Nutrient @ 5 Minutes (Boil)
Single step Infusion at 67°C for 30 Minutes.
Fermented at 18°C with Safale US-05
Notes
----------------
Single infusion with mashout @ 78C
Recipe Generated with BrewMate

 

[TheWiggman]

I'd be interested to hear chrisluki's take on the above banter, he said he had inside info and knows the head brewer. If he put lots of crystal in there and reckons his is close, surely crystal is in the original and it's essential for a clone.
I'm moving and won't be brewing for a while, but will line this up after a delicious stout and report back. I also somehow ended up with way too much English dark crystal in my stocks so this works out well.
Yeast? Maybe WLP002?

 

[iJosh]

Yep, I'm hoping chrisluki chimes in again too. One thought... Could they be using 22% Carapils? That would remove the astringency problem. Could be used along with Choc Wheat (or Midnight Wheat) in similar proportions to this:

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 23.0
Total Grain (kg): 4.150
Original Gravity (OG): 1.039 (°P): 9.8
Final Gravity (FG): 1.010 (°P): 2.6
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 3.83 %
Colour (SRM): 16.6 (EBC): 32.6

Grain Bill
----------------
2.000 kg Traditional Ale (Joe White) (48.19%)
1.000 kg Carapils (Dextrine) (24.1%)
1.000 kg Vienna (Joe White) (24.1%)
0.150 kg Chocolate Wheat (Weyermann) (3.61%)

 

[iJosh]

@ DJ_L3ThAL

Looks the goods to me mate! Are you game enough to try my 22% Carapils theory?

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

@ DJ_L3ThAL

Looks the goods to me mate! Are you game enough to try my 22% Carapils theory?

I'm game to try anything, but figured the midnight wheat would provide the colour and having a 50:50 pale/vienna would add some body. (Ive only ever used carapils around 3-5% for head retention... what else can it bring in higher amounts?)

 

[chrisluki]

Hey guys

The malt bill in the picture is correct. I used the Crystal to try and achieve the desired colour of 40EBC, cos i couldn't get it with the below malts.

Pale, Wheat, Carapils & Vienna.

If you have any ideas of how to get the dark ruby red colour in a different way, I am all ears.

As for the aroma, I got that pretty much spot on with my hop mix with this recipe.

I have put a call into an old workmate at LC to see if there is a trick that he can get the brewers to enlighten me on. If i find anything out, i will share.

Cheers

Chris

 

[technobabble66]

Fwiw, iirc the LC blurb on their website also states the extensive use of Ella hops. I notice that doesn't appear on the photo'd board. So do you reckon it could be they've tweaked the recipe or are they fibbing?

For the malts you simply can't get the required colour with the malts listed on that board (as stated already). So again they're either fibbing (haven't revealed at least one malt they're using in it) or they've done their own kilning on some of the pale malt. Fwiw, I also get a toasty flavour from Rogers that I doubt those malts listed would provide. So I'd guess they've used at least some crystal and/or Amber/victory/biscuit.
I'd *guess* if they're saying it's a nod to UK Bitters, it'll have crystal in it. Maybe medium crystal. However I'm definitely no expert on UK beers.
2c

EDIT: i stand corrected: "elements of an English Bitter with the malt character of an American Amber"
So i'd probably still go with crystal or caramalts (whatever the Briess equivalent is) and i'd be very tempted to go with Victory also. US Ambers seem to commonly use Choc malt as well, so it's not unreasonable to consider that (maybe instead of the Victory).

Maybe a worthwhile little thought exercise: What is the difference in the malt character (& therefore recipe) of an English Bitter compared to an American Amber?

 

[chrisluki]

I will find out more details for us on this malt...there has to be some come crystal!!

As for the hops...this is whats in it.

[SIZE=11pt]East Kent Goldings (UK) used in the kettle, Cascade (US) in the whirlpool with Stella (Aus) and Cascade (US, NZ and Tasmanian) whole hop flowers used in the hop back.[/SIZE]

I used Ella flowers, but Cascade pellets.

 

[technobabble66]

No galaxy?

 

[chrisluki]

No galaxy?

Nope!

 

[chrisluki]

MYSTERY SOLVED!!!

...well sort of...

The brewers use a malt extract to give it the colour it needs.

A lot of breweries add caramel colour to beers, but I am not sure how this affects the ABV?

Discuss...

 

[technobabble66]

The brewers use a malt extract to give it the colour it needs.

Those sneaky *******s!!!

Is it just a coloring agent? (Ie: no fermentables or flavour?)

 

[DU99]

cara amber or cara red will give a red colour

 

[chrisluki]

Those sneaky *******s!!!

Is it just a coloring agent? (Ie: no fermentables or flavour?)

The brewer was pretty coy about the information...

I am wondering if my crystal malt addition is taken out completely and you add in a fermentable caramel extract, that might solve it all? After all there is no crystal in the recipe, i just used that for colour by doing this caused the astringency i am tasting. i think you would need taste and colour from the extract?

 

[AndrewQLD]

weyermann sinamar would probably work well for the color adjustment.

 

[TheWiggman]

Brewer's caramel I imagine. Thirsty Boy mentioned it was an ingredient in Carton Draught for colouring as apart from that it's all base malt and sugar.
Maybe this / this from some forum sponsors would be ideal?

My understanding is brewer's caramel adds no increase to ABV and does not affect flavour in the quantities used. EBC of around 33000 so not much required. I would imagine on a home scale it might be hard to get the colour exactly right as not much would be required.

 

[chrisluki]

Brewers caramel I imagine. Thirsty Boy mentioned it was an ingredient in Carton Draught for colouring as apart from that it's all base malt and sugar.
Maybe this / this from some forum sponsors would be ideal?

Sounds like a great idea...anyone know how to use it to achieve a target colour?

 

[technobabble66]

The brewers use a malt extract to give it the colour it needs.

Those sneaky *******s!!!

Is it just a coloring agent? (Ie: no fermentables or flavour?)