My new budget Grainfather-esque setup

[takai]

Well brew day cancelled today, but only because my wife organised a birthday BBQ for me. Instead i took the opportunity to etch the kettle with volume markings. First i made up a vinyl template:

Then did the electrolysis etching process:

No more pesky rulers for me now.

 

[SBOB]

nice...you can start a side business selling vinyl ruler markings

 

[CoopsOz]

Yes, I'll be your first customer.

 

[Mr B]

How did you make that?

Pretty nifty indeed

 

[takai]

Made using a vinyl cutter, vinegar, salt and a 12v power brick. Piece of cake... once you have a vinyl cutter

 

[Mr B]

Hehe hep the cutting part was my area of interest.

 

[takai]

Inaugural brew went pretty much flawlessly and I hit all of my numbers pretty much dead on.

Mashed in:

Malt pipe out and draining/raining:

Chilling and hop spider draining post boil:

Built up a good rolling boil throughout, and boil off was spot on calculations.

Only a couple of niggles, the main one being that i forgot to turn the pump off at the end of the chilling process, so it kept the trub in suspension for longer and didnt form as nice a cone. The other is that the drainage rack can get caught on the legs and that just makes a bit of a mess, plus i dont have anywhere to put it for draining anymore as it is larger than the bucket i used to use.

All of that is simple to fix. The only other thing im considering is putting a short length of drilled pipe on the end of the malt pipe feed so that it distributes more evenly around the malt pipe. Thoughts on that, is it worth it?

 

[Matplat]

QLDKEV just has a straight piece of copper pipe sticking straight out to just under the surface.... that's what I went with....

I was thinking creating a setup similar to yours i.e. pipe running round the circumference, and use a soldering iron or something to jab a load of holes, then plumb in the HLT and use it for sparging... but i'm not sure if im bothered really...

 

[takai]

Yeah, soldering iron would work, although i hate getting plastic on the nib of my good one.

With the heavy silicone a 2mm drill bit would probably do the same though.

 

[takai]

All packs up quite compactly too:

 

[takai]

Gave it a run with a RIS today, 10.5kg of grain in the malt pipe and no issues whatsoever. Some slight caramelisation on the element, but came off really easily with steel wool. Win.

Wasnt even that full:

 

[Matplat]

Hey mate, a couple of questions....

I don't know if you have been following the thread 'tips for improving a wheat beer' but in that thread I expressed my woes due to the rather 'thin' tasting wheat that the first run of my system has produced.

One of the suspects in my current investigation into this saga is mash temperature. Instictively I would have put my temperature sensor in the malt pipe, however I have read that this is not correct as you want to put it where the temp in the system is highest. As a result I put mine right in the 'wort out' port as the tip of my heating element points at it and is only a cm or two away from it. So yeah, I'm just wondering where you have put yours?

The second question is, why do you have a float on the end of your return to the malt pipe? surely this just encourages hot side aeration?

Cheers, Matt

 

[takai]

My temp probe is low down close to the element and has the stream from the whirlpool return flowing towards it. You can see it poking out of the RHS in this picture:

Havent had any issues with thin beer yet, but will see how a wheat goes soon.

As for the float its to keep the return ontop of the malt pipe bed rather than sagging down into the grain bed. It doesnt spray wort as much as just let it return to the top of the malt pipe. Due to the lamina flow properties of wort viscosity liquid it reincorporates well without aeration.

 

[takai]

Brewed a wheat beer yesterday, no worries at all. So the starch conversion seems to be going well, and it builds up enough to boil off the hot break. That is the 6th brew through this setup, and all is going excellently. Its also a ton easier to clean than the old setup.

Much win.

 

[Matplat]

Good times! My most recent brew is 5 days into fermentation however i found that i boiled off about 7 litres doing a 90 min boil so OG was higher than expected. How is your boil off rate? What was your old harder to clean set-up? I find i spend about half an hour cleaning after i have filled the cube.

 

[takai]

Just little bits on the old setup, harder to access aspects of it, plus there was an extra item to clean for draining the bag, and then cleaning out the bag etc, element was harder to access too. Just those sort of niggly things.

Boil off rate is about 4.5L/h, lose just under 7L for a 90min boil.

 

[SBOB]

any links to those fittings you have in the pot
What are the bottom/top returns and whats the fitting in the end of the 90 degree on the outlet?

Also, hows the system going? with the prices of these pots on ebay im thinking of getting a couple and using a false bottom (as opposed to the angle grinder option) to build something similar

 

[takai]

any links to those fittings you have in the pot
What are the bottom/top returns and whats the fitting in the end of the 90 degree on the outlet?

Also, hows the system going? with the prices of these pots on ebay im thinking of getting a couple and using a false bottom (as opposed to the angle grinder option) to build something similar

The bottom and top returns are from KK. They are 90deg 10mm outlets. The lower one is chopped in half and welded to a parallel 1/2 fitting so i could get it to seat in my preferred orientation without needing much tape.

As for how its going, humming along quite well at the moment. Biggest niggle though is that i should have reversed the camlocks and put the cam ends on the hoses and the fixed ends on the pot. Clearance for the arms is a little tight sometimes. Overall it works fine though so im loathed to change it unless it starts causing issues.

 

[Matplat]

Have you noticed any staining of your pot?

I clean it with napisan immediately after each brew, but can see stains/etch marks from the wort level on the inside.

Just not sure if this is due to my cleaning regime, or the fact that it's a cheap pot....

 

[rude]

I've gone with the 56/82 litre combo for a great grain father. My gf is a.bit small for some brews after a 50 litre mash tun and 100 litre boiler.
Aim to use a double Hotplate under it for mashing and add an immersion for boil. I've got a spare domed false bottom I'll use in the malt pipe to start with and have a march pump and fittings from old systems.
Will go simple gf style plumbing initially.

image.jpg
I've got an open ardbir controller that will run it.

Gone big allright keep the photos descriptions coming enoch

 

[enoch]

Gone big allright keep the photos descriptions coming enoch

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/gallery/album/1339-enochs-great-malt-mother/

 

[enoch]

Have you noticed any staining of your pot?

I clean it with napisan immediately after each brew, but can see stains/etch marks from the wort level on the inside.

Just not sure if this is due to my cleaning regime, or the fact that it's a cheap pot....

My cheap pots are pretty ordinary for rust stains. Left for a couple days with water in them before the build and all the seams rusted up a bit. Lots of cleaning and starsan but still wouldn't trust it for a fermenter on similar.

 

[rude]

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/gallery/album/1339-enochs-great-malt-mother/[/quote

 

[takai]

My cheap pots are pretty ordinary for rust stains. Left for a couple days with water in them before the build and all the seams rusted up a bit. Lots of cleaning and starsan but still wouldn't trust it for a fermenter on similar.

I haven't noticed any rust stains, and thats after putting it away wet (emergency shutdown) and having to tear it down last night to rebuild.

Also the bottle sanitiser comes in handy here. 3hr soak in Perc, then manual scrub and rinse, followed by three runs through the sanitiser.

 

[klangers]

Ah i meant one for each pot not two per pot.... i see the confusion though.

Planning on using the 4500w dialled back to 2400w for domestic usage with an SSV-R. Should yield even lower watt density over the element, and makes for very cheap element replacements.

I know it's all working nicely so the point I'm about to make may be moot. Just intended for anyone else who is planning element installations.

Technically you're not dialling back power with a solid state relay. You're operating at full power for a lower % of the time (on off on off on off etc). The effective power is 2400W into the kettle, but your circuits still need to be able to cope with full demand.

 

[takai]

I know it's all working nicely so the point I'm about to make may be moot. Just intended for anyone else who is planning element installations.

Technically you're not dialling back power with a solid state relay. You're operating at full power for a lower % of the time (on off on off on off etc). The effective power is 2400W into the kettle, but your circuits still need to be able to cope with full demand.

Not quite. That would be the case if i was using the SSR for a PID derived proportional power circuit. But in my case im using a variable voltage solid state relay to reduce the voltage (and therefore the amperage) to the element instead. I have two relays in my system, one is a plain SSR that works off the PID at 'full power' but effectively it is switching a lower voltage due to the SSV-R. Electrically it is doing sine wave clipping on the AC signal and shedding the remainder in heat.
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=332

 

[rude]

So you can manually adjust you're wattage of you're element via the SCR with dial

While you're SSR switches you're element on & off via the PID

Have I got this right & if I have whats the benefit for doing it this way rather than controlling full wattage on off

Cheers Rude

 

[takai]

So you can manually adjust you're wattage of you're element via the SCR with dial

While you're SSR switches you're element on & off via the PID

Have I got this right & if I have whats the benefit for doing it this way rather than controlling full wattage on off

Cheers Rude

Effectively adjusting wattage. You are actually adjusting the voltage, but because the resistance of the heating element stays the same V=IR may be reorganised to highlight that you are effectively adjusting current flow.

The benefit for me is being able to use a readily available low watt density 4500W element on a standard home 10A circuit.

 

[rude]

Current is directly proportional to voltage & inversely proportional to resistance

No worries so how does you're boil go are you happy with it ?

 

[takai]

Current is directly proportional to voltage & inversely proportional to resistance

No worries so how does you're boil go are you happy with it ?

Yeah, it works quite well. If i was building it again i would try to get nested pots that are taller than they are wide, but that isnt a huge concern, still works pretty much flawlessly.

My main frustration with it is the plumbing and making sure everything is sealed up when i rebuild it (which i do every few months to clean it out). I did have a thought a while back about permanently sealing some of the pieces, but decided against it for cleaning reasons.

The main thing im considering changing is the mash recirculation feed, as i wonder if it could be optimised so that it spreads the wort out over the grain bed better.