My new budget Grainfather-esque setup

[Matplat]

Are you gonna have the double return/whirlpool a la QLDKEV style?

In fact, how are you recirculating full stop? The malt pipe is taller than the pot so a return into the pot wont make it over the top of the malt pipe?

 

[takai]

Are you gonna have the double return/whirlpool a la QLDKEV style?

In fact, how are you recirculating full stop? The malt pipe is taller than the pot so a return into the pot wont make it over the top of the malt pipe?

Not the double return for now, although i do have the parts to make it work. For now the return will be a pipe in the inner pot over the top, or perhaps through the lid. Mainly want to get it going and check viability first.

Am thinking about putting in a whirlpool return lower down though, and will consider putting in the dual return at that time.

 

[takai]

Where did you get the element adaptor from? I can only find em in the us

Ooops, missed this post. Element housing was out of the US, from brewhardware (no affiliation)

 

[Matplat]

Am thinking about putting in a whirlpool return lower down though, and will consider putting in the dual return at that time.

Surely, the whirlpool return is the double return????

 

[crowmanz]

But he could use the whirlpool separate to the malt pipe return. Only using 1 return at a time, rather than using 2 at a time.

 

[Matplat]

I think i must be missing something here, because that is exactly what i am thinking of when i say double return. One return to the malt pipe, and one return into the pot with an elbow to whirlpool, both with taps to open and close them...?

 

[takai]

Ah, the photos from the Qldkev thread have the lower return directed straight at the element, rather than a whirlpool. Then the upper return is used as either the maltpipe or a whirlpool return depending on whether it is in the outer or inner pot.

 

[crowmanz]

The bottom return is for flow over the element and providing an overflow option / keeping enough liquid below the malt pipe. The grainfather has a central overflow pipe and a top mesh screen so pumping excess wort onto the top flows down the overflow mostly grain free, the brau is similar having the top mesh screen.

I run both (my bottom return isn't fully plumbed in) returns during mash and only restrict the flow to the top of the malt pipe via a ball valve. Without the bottom return I could possibly have an overflow or stuck mash issue.

Once I plumb my lower return in it will be set up as a whirlpool return

 

[Matplat]

Hmmm, yeah I'm thinking that if you use the whirlpool return while mashing, that the whirlpool will be good enough by itself to prevent scorching, without the need for a dedicated element return.

 

[takai]

Hmmm, yeah I'm thinking that if you use the whirlpool return while mashing, that the whirlpool will be good enough by itself to prevent scorching, without the need for a dedicated element return.

That is what im thinking as well, and planning on that in the long run.

 

[krausenhaus]

I have mine set up with the lower return doubling as a whirlpool return, and it does a fine job of keeping the wort moving around the element even though its a fair bit higher up.

Where did you get the element adaptor from? I can only find em in the us

Nosco I have a brand new one for sale if you're interested, it's the solder-on version though:

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/85427-stainless-element-enclosure-brew-hardware/

 

[crowmanz]

Hmmm, yeah I'm thinking that if you use the whirlpool return while mashing, that the whirlpool will be good enough by itself to prevent scorching, without the need for a dedicated element return.

I think in the end we are all talking about the same thing.

Top return normal, bottom return whirlpool? both used in mashing, top turned off at end of boil for bottom only return to whirlpool.

 

[takai]

Finally got around to getting some work done on this, plus the rest of the fittings arrived, so i put in the external return.

Lower whirlpool, upper to feed the mash:

How the malt pipe is fed. Will put some 10mm hose between and just lock in place during mash, low flow and low resistance so shouldnt pop off.

Finally what it looks like externally:

Currently waiting for the liquid PFTE to dry and then can leak test it again (failed the first time)

 

[Benn]

Coming along nicely :beer:

 

[enoch]

I've gone with the 56/82 litre combo for a great grain father. My gf is a.bit small for some brews after a 50 litre mash tun and 100 litre boiler.
Aim to use a double Hotplate under it for mashing and add an immersion for boil. I've got a spare domed false bottom I'll use in the malt pipe to start with and have a march pump and fittings from old systems.
Will go simple gf style plumbing initially.

I've got an open ardbir controller that will run it.

 

[Matplat]

Finally what it looks like externally:

That puts my plumbing to shame, i will have my taps pointing straight outwards and they will hang out like dogs balls

 

[trevgale]

I noticed you are using Bostons liquid thread sealant. I used this on my setup previously and it left a funny smell and what looked like an oil slick on top of the liquid.

I originally used it to get my valves fixed in the correct orientation and figured that it should be ideal given that it is rated up to 135degC and is for use on potable water. I can only guess that it was due to the low pH or wort, I didn't check at the time if I had the same issue in my HLT.

Anyway just thought I would give you a heads up in case you have a similar problem and go around in circles trying to find the cause. At the time I had just build a new system and thought it might have been some kind of contamination from the valves and fittings.

I think somebody else had a thread on the same problems somewhere.

 

[trevgale]

Comforting words Tahoose, but unfortunately my luck has taken a turn for the worse. As for my partner, she's at the races today so I've been at home looking after 3 mad kids. Still managed a brew because I'm just that hardcore.

I tasted the weissbier after a few days in the fermenter and noted the plastic taste has returned. Not pronounced, but present. I'm over the system in general so I figure f%^k it - I'm going to drink this one. I got someone else to sample it and they said they couldn't really tell, so that says how obvious it is.
Today I did a XXXX bitter recipe (don't hate on me - I like the beer alright? Gold is another story...) which I batched sparged as I explained above.

Mashed in at 50°C for protein rest for 15 mins
Mash at 66°C (double checked my temps today and found out the thermocouples read badly, so I was right on it). +/-0.5°C for an hour.
Mash out to 78°C for 20 mins, dumped the mash into a fermenter so I can use the boiler as a kettle.

While I was doing this I noticed something odd that I've seen in the other brews but didn't think twice. Bear in mind I've never seen another AG brewer in action before excluding a BIAB. Note the colour around the bubbles -

Can someone tell me if this is normal? In real life there was a bit more colour, like an oil slick. To me that says there is some sort of hydrocarbon in the mash, and I haven't put oil anywhere near the system. I believe it's a plastic residue. I'm certain it's not the grain because this was packaged by Craft Brewer.
In fact I'm pretty bloody confident this isn't normal, I just want reassurance.

At this stage it tastes really good, can't tell that there's something in there that shouldn't be. After doing the rest of the brew (got everything spot on with an extra 1.5l in the fermenter) I tasted it half way through the boil and I reckon the plastic taste has returned. It's now chilling in the fridge and I'll be splitting the yeast so if it does turn out badly, I'll have some fresh stuff on-hand.

I was surprisingly relaxed as I suppose this isn't a new thing for me. I bit the bullet and pulled the entire system apart. What I found was that there was a lot of plastic stinkiness in both the mash tun and keg/RIMS unit on all the stainless fittings. Here's all of it, and if you look at the threads you'll see what I'm talking about. What's visible is not the worst of it. And yes, there's some rust on the compression fittings thanks to the copper tube which was horribly corroded -

The culprit? Because I didn't have any thread tape in the shed when I built the system, I used this -

Before everyone rants - yes I know how silly I am - it does say it's rated for water and gas up to 135°C, well above temps I exposed it to. It's obviously not acidic-mash tolerant though, and the mash liquor must have slowly chewed away at it during the brew cycle and wrecked all my brews. I had a chew on one of the threads in the mash tun and it tasted horrible. My original dramas with the boiler though were a different issue, this is just another thing to add to this mess.
I spent all afternoon cleaning every little bit of plastic out and giving it a solid PBW soak. There is not a hint of the smell any more. I reassembled everything with blue thread tape this time and I assume that's fine to use in contact with mash liquor. I pulled the keg apart and will purchase the gear to make a HERMS system out of my HERMS coil in the near future. It'll be a while until the next brew so I'll find out then if I've solved it.

I'm pretty confident I have. Here's a list of where I failed -

• Used a liquid sealant on threads
• Used a sealant on a leak
• Installed a sight glass unnecessarily
• Purchased an undersized pump
• Cleaned copper with bleach
• Used a keg as RIMS system when I should have settled on something simpler

Many lessons for the new brewer. DON'T USE LIQUID SEALANT UNLESS YOU WANT TO BE PISSED OFF AT THE WORLD CONSTANTLY. I still love this hobby though.

Here is the post I was thinking of.

 

[takai]

I have used Bostons fairly extensively in the past, with no issues. I guess time will tell though if it is an issue here. Planning on a test brew next weekend at this stage, so will find out shortly.
Failing that i have some Loctite 567, 561 and 565 and 542 which are the same compound as teflon tape, but in liquid form.

Failing all of that i actually only have one thread done up with the liquid PTFE, so should be able to seal it effectively with multiple layers of tape with some trial and error.

 

[TheWiggman]

If you've used that thread sealant pull everything apart that is was used on and give it a serious clean. Caustic soda, sodium percarbernate soak, whatever - and then hit it with a wire brush and soak again.
Edit: sloooow reply. I'm surprised you haven't had issues with it in the past.