Mud

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BoilerBoy

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Done 2 apa's in the last few weeks and mashed 95% ale and pils malt and 5% caramunich. They are both as clear as MUD!
I used to mash partials up to 4.5kilos and use a bucket in bucket method, this time I mashed 6 kilos the same way thats the only difference.I always mash for 90 min and do an iodine test and all seemed fine, Yet it appears to be starch haze.
Any thoughts or ideas on what I did wrong would be greatly appreciated. :(

Cheers
 

Ross

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BoilerBoy said:
Done 2 apa's in the last few weeks and mashed 95% ale and pils malt and 5% caramunich. They are both as clear as MUD!
I used to mash partials up to 4.5kilos and use a bucket in bucket method, this time I mashed 6 kilos the same way thats the only difference.I always mash for 90 min and do an iodine test and all seemed fine, Yet it appears to be starch haze.
Any thoughts or ideas on what I did wrong would be greatly appreciated. :(

Cheers
[post="80626"][/post]​
Need a bit more info on your process & yeast used etc, if you want an informed reply...
 

Ducatiboy stu

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Could be yeast...

I had a cask ale yeast that was basically all wrong, tatsed wierd and just wont settle.....even after many months it has not cleared...
 

BoilerBoy

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The yeast was 1272 american ale 2 which generally clears well , I have never had this happen before.
 

AndrewQLD

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Does the beer taste fine, no infections? Some infections can cause serious haze issues as well. Is the yeast first generation? if you have reused it a few times it's possible you have been gathering the poor floccing yeasts that stay in suspension.

Andrew
 

BoilerBoy

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Its a first generation generation yeast and the beer tastes fine other than still green.
As I said its never happened before and then 2 in a row..... looks more like apricot nectar!

I mashed at 67deg for 90 min stirring aprox every 20 min, I dont always use whirlfloc in the boil and didn't this time, but in the past I have found little dfference when I have used it, others I know never use it.
 

Ross

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BoilerBoy said:
Its a first generation generation yeast and the beer tastes fine other than still green.
As I said its never happened before and then 2 in a row..... looks more like apricot nectar!

I mashed at 67deg for 90 min stirring aprox every 20 min, I dont always use whirlfloc in the boil and didn't this time, but in the past I have found little dfference when I have used it, others I know never use it.
[post="80651"][/post]​
boilerboy,

You state just made in the last few weeks - So I guess some CCing & a bit of patience might bring them good...
 

BoilerBoy

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Yeah Ross, first one in the fridge yesterday and i'm praying that it will at least clear a bit .
On that note, I have never used finings before and as far as I can recall its only effective in clearing yeast which I dont think this is......could this help ? I have read mixed reports about finings e.g strips beer of flavour.
 

Ross

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BoilerBoy said:
Yeah Ross, first one in the fridge yesterday and i'm praying that it will at least clear a bit .
On that note, I have never used finings before and as far as I can recall its only effective in clearing yeast which I dont think this is......could this help ? I have read mixed reports about finings e.g strips beer of flavour.
[post="80665"][/post]​
Get it in the fridge & get it as close to 0c as you can - I'm pretty sure this will clear it up for you, almost definately yeast...
Finings don't strip flavour that I'm aware of...
If CC is a problem for you, then maybe take a look at filtering - cheap easy option & details under "Beer filter" in the latest threads...
 

Trough Lolly

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Boilerboy,
What temp did you mash at? Did you do a protein rest with the grains or a single saccharification rest at around 65C??

TL
 

BoilerBoy

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TL

No protein rest, mashed at 67C for 90min.
 

BoilerBoy

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Just an update on this problem

Did a Aussie Pale recipe yesterday and had the same problem of the wort not clearing as it came out of the mash tun, it was basically mud again!
I recirculated the first runnings and just kept going until I reckon about 15 litres had been put back through and still as muddy as ever.
I pushed on and sparged and gradually the wort began to clear, so I put all I had collected so far back through the tun and it cleared up.
The only problem was that the sparging took 600 years, it was painfully slow and the longest brew day in my short brewing life! :(
Upon examining the grain bed afterward it was so compacted and it got me thinking? Because I dont own a grain mill and I have to get a HBS to crack the grains for me, both the other brews and yesterdays were from a shop I hadn,t been to before.
I am no expert in judging grist, but I wonder whether he maybe cracking his grains to fine causing excessive cloudiness and to tighter grain bed? As I said above this has never happened previously before.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
 

tangent

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was your grain really that fine? do you have some left to take a photo of?
it's an interesting problem
if you have the means, CCing clears stuff up really well and better than adding extra stuff to your beer IMO. Maybe just for peace of mind that there's no extra hoof in it.
 

BoilerBoy

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No tangent I dont have any left for a photo they were all just bought and weighed out as a single brews from the same HBS.
The earlier two brews have been in the fridge for about a week now, nothing clearing yet, but it may take some time ( I'd at least like to be able to see light through the beer)
At least they still taste OK
I may have just invented a new APA style, I think I'll call it "MIssissippi Mud" :lol:
 

tangent

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maybe a fine grind and a low water to grain ratio(?) with maybe a high strike(?) temp makes the starches cook and coagulate into the wort like a starchy glue? instead of just washing the converted sugars off through a nice open spongey bed? so your wort is full of starches and therefore not clearing?
clutching at straws here sorry BB....
 

BoilerBoy

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Yes possibly, but at least yesterdays brew cleared after recirculating and painstakingly slow sparging. The top of the grain bed at the end of sparging had really silted up (almost inpenetrable)
Thanks tangent
 

barfridge

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Where abouts are you BB? I'm in Perth, and a HBS here always crushes too fine for my system.
Hence I'm badgering the missus for a mill for christmas.
 

Darren

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BB,
Did you have "starch-balls" when you emptied out your tun? If so make sure you stir the mash weel before sparging.
Recently I have been experimenting if Whirlfocc etc is necessary.
As usual, the reason that it available is because it definately helps to produce a clear beer.
Put the whirlflocc back and I bet your clarity issues go away.
darren
 

BoilerBoy

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Darren,
The mash was well stirred aprox every 20 min over a 90 min period and there was no evidence when I emptied the tun that I could see of starch-balls if I understand your meaning of that being pockets or dough balls of unconverted starch.

G'day Barfridge,
I'm in Adelaide and yes like you I would love my own mill. Have only been brewing for about 18 months and I am dead set envious of the set ups and gear on this site. I have done a few AG brews in my own primitive way (mostly successfull) but a mill would allow me at least to buy grain in bulk and have greater control. Its just money holding me back thats all, my wife tells me there's plenty of money to be made down "the docks" if you know what I mean! :unsure:
 

barfridge

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Hello sailor!

(I know what you mean)
 

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