Move To All Grain For Thirty Bucks

[flano]

cheers

I think I will just get a big arse pot...stainless or aluminium????

and do biab for a while until

 

[leiothrix]

why would you want a big arse-pot?

The summary is Ali's cheaper, S/S is prettier.

I'd prefer S/S, but it depends on your budget. Ali isn't going to hurt anything.

rob.

 

[goomboogo]

why would you want a big arse-pot?

rob.

I prefer it that way.

 

[flano]

ok ...

just read a fair bit of this again.

Got to about page 9 when my eyes started bleeding and some dude started fugging it up for everyone.

In short.

big pot ..20 ltrs .
coffee grinder or equiv.
Thermometer ( candy ...whatever that means ...some sort of cooking gizmo I reckon)
Swiss violle polyester ...enough for big bag and a few smaller ones for hops etc.

plus ingredients.

no worrys with sticking the hydrometer in such hot liquid??

also my BBQ has a side burner..could I just use this?

..and the fella's who do all grain on their big 3 tiers setups ...does this chew through the gas ( lpg)

cheers
Norks.

 

[barneyb]

coffee grinder or equiv.

I've been using grain crushed by my LHBS and it has works a treat. Efficiency has been a bit on the low side but I think it is mostly due to other reasons.

Thermometer ( candy ...whatever that means ...some sort of cooking gizmo I reckon)

I just use a digital one from Big W ($20) and it works well. Your LHBS might also have some for sale

no worrys with sticking the hydrometer in such hot liquid??

Yeah be careful with this. I believe Nick said later int he thread that he runs the hydro under warm water (ramping the temp up to hot water) before putting it into the hot liquid. If you put a cold one straight in you run the risk of shattering it.

As for you BBQ it will all depend on how much of a boil you can get from it.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

ok ...

just read a fair bit of this again.

Got to about page 9 when my eyes started bleeding and some dude started fugging it up for everyone.

In short.

big pot ..20 ltrs .
coffee grinder or equiv.
Thermometer ( candy ...whatever that means ...some sort of cooking gizmo I reckon)
Swiss violle polyester ...enough for big bag and a few smaller ones for hops etc.

plus ingredients.

no worrys with sticking the hydrometer in such hot liquid??

also my BBQ has a side burner..could I just use this?

..and the fella's who do all grain on their big 3 tiers setups ...does this chew through the gas ( lpg)

cheers
Norks.

Yes yes yes - I sound like SWMBO after my magic hands get going.

Norks, I have 2x19L big w pots (I happened to purchase a second on special for $11), and I now do fullsized batches (split the grain bill in 2) using these on the stove and efficiency is fantastic.

I used a pasta pot to sparge (It has an insert strainer that acts like a false bottom) - it means I'm not hauling big grain bags onto hooks (that I don't own in my rental property). Don't use the door knob, it doesn't work.

If you use CB above - they crush grain for you, so if you don't own a coffee grinder, you can save yourself a few bucks not purchasing one.

The reason I do the fullsize batch? 9L is great for experiments, but it is a whole lot of effort for not that much beer. It's great for practicing, as NickJD says, but it does get a little frustrating devoting half your weekend for 2/3 a carton of beer. Once you're confident with your techniques (and you'll probably invent some that suit you, such as I have), do full size batches. 30 tallies worth of beer is worth that effort.

Some of the 3V blokes can be disparaging toward BIAB (some, not all), but it certainly is a fantastic way to do AG beer, and my efficiencies are over 80%, so I'm not convinced that buying a 3V system is economically sound. Everyone is different though. I respect the years of experience the 3V guys have, but for me, I see no need to "move up" to 3V.

Have fun, nontheless. Horses, courses, etc

 

[barneyb]

Don't use the door knob, it doesn't work.

Really? It worked great for my when I tried. The trick I used was to keep the bag in the bucket, only lift it above the water line. This way is isn't touching the door. Obviously you need a rope to tie it to!

I also have used the trick where you put some dow or a strong broom handle across a kitchen bench where is meets in an L shape and tie the rope to the piece of wood which is hanging over the floor.

The reason I do the fullsize batch? 9L is great for experiments, but it is a whole lot of effort for not that much beer. It's great for practicing, as NickJD says, but it does get a little frustrating devoting half your weekend for 2/3 a carton of beer. Once you're confident with your techniques (and you'll probably invent some that suit you, such as I have), do full size batches. 30 tallies worth of beer is worth that effort.

I think your maths is a tad off . I do 10L batches and get a bit over 1 case worth of beer. (10L / 330ml = 30 beers or if using 375ml = 26 beers). Although I agree it is a lot of effort for a case, it doesn't quite take 1/2 weekend! I can knock over the mash/boil in a couple of hours. I have even done it a couple of times at night after work, spending all the mashing/boiling time cooking dinner and watching TV. Bottling 1 case worth only takes about an hour now I am used to it.

It is definitely for experimenting only though, once I get some good recipes down I will move to making them in full batches. The reason I only do 1/2 batches now is cause there is nothing worse than making 2 1/2 cases worth of beer that is so bitter even your mates won't drink it. Trust me I know from experience!

I like your 2 pot idea for full batches. Ill definitely give that a shot soon.

 

[flano]

Cheers fellas
gonna hit Big W right now see what they have for a big pot.

could I put the bag into a colander that is over the bucket or does it need to be hung?

 

[Nick JD]

The 9L version is really just to keep things simple and small in case anything goes wrong first time round. The first time you're not primarily trying to make beer, you're teaching yourself how to make beer. Drinking the first batch is just a bonus.

I've found a 3 to 3.5kg grain bill and a fermenter volume of 18L @ ~1.050 is easily doable with this gear.

If you want to push the limits, you can do a 24L batch of 4.5% AG beer using this gear.

After your first small batch, all of your questions will answer themselves.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

The 9L version is really just to keep things simple and small in case anything goes wrong first time round. The first time you're not primarily trying to make beer, you're teaching yourself how to make beer. Drinking the first batch is just a bonus.

I've found a 3 to 3.5kg grain bill and a fermenter volume of 18L @ ~1.050 is easily doable with this gear.

If you want to push the limits, you can do a 24L batch of 4.5% AG beer using this gear.

After your first small batch, all of your questions will answer themselves.

True true. Even with average efficiency, you can get a good batch with 3-3.5kg.

I find that 4 to 4.5kg (depending on specialty grains) will do a great job of 22.5L batch. But Nick_JD is absolutely right - 9L is perfect for experimenting. I've had 2 of my experiment batches become fullsize batches. I'm not disparaging 9L batches, they are fantastic for experimenting. And since I now have 2 pots, I can do 2 experimental batches at once. But as a permanent method of making beer, no way will I go batch to 1 x 9L batch per brew day.

Having said that - Nick_JD's guide, despite the knockers, snobs and egos got me to AG brewing. And it got me to the stage of understanding what in practice = what in theory and understanding how they work. I didn't understand mash temps when I first used the guide, but I do understanding the difference mash temps make now. But it's this constant learning and practicing that works.

I think your maths is a tad off . I do 10L batches and get a bit over 1 case worth of beer. (10L / 330ml = 30 beers or if using 375ml = 26 beers). Although I agree it is a lot of effort for a case, it doesn't quite take 1/2 weekend! I can knock over the mash/boil in a couple of hours. I have even done it a couple of times at night after work, spending all the mashing/boiling time cooking dinner and watching TV. Bottling 1 case worth only takes about an hour now I am used to it.

It is definitely for experimenting only though, once I get some good recipes down I will move to making them in full batches. The reason I only do 1/2 batches now is cause there is nothing worse than making 2 1/2 cases worth of beer that is so bitter even your mates won't drink it. Trust me I know from experience!

I like your 2 pot idea for full batches. Ill definitely give that a shot soon.

Sorry, i was doing maths on 9 bottles (ie. 18 stubbies, 2/3 batch), not 9L (12 bottles = 24 stubbies = slab). My apologies.

I've been bottling for 12 years and anything to make it more time efficient or bottle more in less time, I will and have done it. Actually, bottling a 12 bottle batch is really simple. But spending the 3 or 3.5 hours (depending on mash and boil times) is a big effort for 9L of beer.

Experimenting, as above - I've had some graduate to fullsize batches. Great for experimenting and perfect when you have 2 pots to do 2 experiment batches at the same time and great for being creative.

At the moment, I'm playing with SMASH beers at the moment, just to play with different hop types and I'm happy to do a fullsizer with that - because it a really simple process - nothing too concerning as I've done nothing over the top taste wise.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[Spork]

Great thread.
Just new to brewing and thought I'd be doing kits and bits for quite a while.
This has me thinking though. Can it really be so simple?
Might try a BIAB much sooner than I had thought.
Sort of been looking for an excuse to get a 2nd fermenter, even if it's just a 15 litre one. Already have thermometer, gas burner ans suitable overhead beam to put a pulley on...

One question though.
Is whats posted in the first few pages all thats needed for this brew? Hops, grain, water and yeast? No need to add sugar / LME or other fermentables unless I want to raise the OG?

 

[bum]

One question though.
Is whats posted in the first few pages all thats needed for this brew? Hops, grain, water and yeast? No need to add sugar / LME or other fermentables unless I want to raise the OG?

Dude. This is like the most chopped down version possible. If you tl;dr on this one you should think about sticking with the tins a bit longer.

 

[kelbygreen]

No, AG is all grain which is all grain. Malt extract is made from malted barley or grain then it goes threw a process to extract the water. AG is using malted barley but you mash it and you make the wort to the right OG so you ont have to turn it into liquid malt or dry malt you use the malt from the grains its the same malt they use but heavily unprocessed

 

[Bribie G]

Beer: Malted grain, hops, water, yeast, polenta.

Forget the polenta for now, I'll tell you later h34r:

It's what's been happening since

 

[Spork]

Thanks bum, read the first 10 or so pages, couldn't see anything else strictly related to the "recipe" so I jumped to the end. I thought it was probably the case (that no other fermentables needed to be added) but I wanted to double check is all. Also, I'm stone cold sober (SWMBO's idea) at the moment, so my attention span for 27 page threads might be affected.
ps: got another "tin" in the post, so won't be doing an "AG" until I have at least 2 K&K's to my name.

 

[RdeVjun]

Is whats posted in the first few pages all thats needed for this brew? Hops, grain, water and yeast? No need to add sugar / LME or other fermentables unless I want to raise the OG?

Yep, that's it. Well, after you get the kettle and BIAB bag that is, then with those very ingredients- it is indeed an all- grain method. In some circles it might be considered a bit of a sawn- off, however principles are principles... :icon_cheers:
A limitation with this particular method (i.e. this guide) is that it yields about 10- 12L of beer, however there's ways to up that to 20- odd L with relative ease. Link below and search for the Maxi-BIAB variation, alternatively 20L Stovetop should get you there.
Having said that, there's nothing wrong with small batches to begin with, there's nothing quite as disappointing as drinking our way through a whole 23L batch of crap AG beer... :angry:

Edit: Ah Polenta- Our favourite adjunct- Goes well with grits for breakfast!

 

[mh971]

.......In some circles it might be considered a bit of a sawn- off, however principles are principles......

I like that some may consider it the sawn-off approach, in fact i'm thanking you for the term RdeVjun, i'll use that. Given that there are some big award winners in the BIAB ranks it shows a sawn off gets the job done like anything else.


If it hadn't been for this thread I wouldn't have started AG ( many thanks Nick). After reading it I bought my $20 big W pot, grabbed a couple of metres of voile from spotlight (still use it as a flat square - no need to get fancy and sew it) and gave this a crack, and have never looked back.

The only other single step I made that improved my beer by this degree was introducing temperature control. If you want to make good beer you need to have a plan of how you will maintain desired ferment temp for the style you're brewing - this is easier for some depending on geographical location and fermeter location. I have to use a temp controller and an old fridge.

 

[felten]

Great thread.
Just new to brewing and thought I'd be doing kits and bits for quite a while.
This has me thinking though. Can it really be so simple?
Might try a BIAB much sooner than I had thought.
Sort of been looking for an excuse to get a 2nd fermenter, even if it's just a 15 litre one. Already have thermometer, gas burner ans suitable overhead beam to put a pulley on...

One question though.
Is whats posted in the first few pages all thats needed for this brew? Hops, grain, water and yeast? No need to add sugar / LME or other fermentables unless I want to raise the OG?

The process of mashing is just as simple as outlined in the OP, if you follow the instructions completely. The steep learning curve comes in with understanding the various ingredients, all the complex physical and chemical changes going on, and how/why it actually works so you don't **** it all up if you alter something.

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

don't forget to add some whirlfloc, Irish moss or koppafloc at the end of the boil as per the directions on the pack, it will help dropping any nasties out and leave them in the kettle.

As another poster has suggested getting tempreture control as soon as you can even if your still doing kits, yeast can produce strange flavours when under stress!!

How To Brew is another great resource.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Two things I see with this thread (which helped me get started):

1. It demystifies the physical process of getting wort from grain and makes one realise that powdered/liquid malt is only mashed grain that has been reduced. So it takes away the scariness of that; and

2. You will get the result if you follow it, and from there, it is way easier to piece together the theory. As felten said, you can treat it like a connect the dots to get the picture, and you'll get the result from that recipe, but if you want to construct your own recipes, you need to understand the theory. However, it is considerably easier to understand the theory if you've done a bit of the prac. Concept to practice becomes easier to connect.

And as bob said - temp control is the most important thing in the whole process. My confidence took a battering over summer, because I'd never brewed in summer before and hadn't realised how much nasty flavours the summer heat (even in an airconditioned house) produced.

I've just bottled a pale ale last night that smells normal and has had cooler temps applied to it, and hoping it tastes as good as it smells, because you don't like to feel like you've made progress, only to feel like you are making irreversible mistakes.

Get an STC-1000 from ebay, an old fridge, wire it up (or get an electrician mate to do it as I have). Keep the yeast in its ideal range. Yeast is the most important ingredient, as it is yeast that converts wort to beer.

Goomba

 

[alizzan]

Agreed, Raja.

I just did my first partial last night, and while I didn't get the efficiency I had hoped, the entire process was so much easier thanks to Nick's method. I would really like to see it make it to the articles section, as I think that if there's anything that will get people to make the switch from K&K/Extract brewing like I did, it's this article. That, and Nick has a wicked sense of humour. I'm looking forward to trying a full AG with this and seeing how DrSmurto's GA turns out.

 

[chrs24]

Hi Guys,

I've been doing this this morning. I've just boiled the wort and have added the simcoe @ 10:22am AEST.

Just a quick query, do I leave the gas stove at full ball to keep the rolling boil or can it go down alittle?

I assume the lid should be on to keep bad stuff out, pictures have it off to actually see inside I assume?

If i'm boiling it for an hour, what stops it evaporating?

Thanks guys!

 

[Tim F]

It's better to keep it at a nice rolling boil if you can, and leave the lid off. You will lose some to evaporation, just a fact of life - people factor that in when calculating volume. Here's a link with some more on why you boil uncovered: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/DMS

 

[chrs24]

Much appreciated, thank you!

*runs to the kitchen to tap the lid off*

 

[Spork]

Just ordered the ingredients, and a few other bits and pieces, from one of the site sponsors.

 

[yum beer]

Ordered my stuff today, brew next Friday if all goes to plan...fingers crossed.

 

[Spork]

So while that's coming up to temp (aiming for just over 70C) lets get the hops sorted. Here's 10g of Simcoe, a good hop for bittering.
And about 7g of Riwaka (or D Saaz) for some flavour - we'll add this later in the boil.

I notice you use Simcoe pellets, and Saaz leafs / flowers.
I could only get Simcoe flowers and Saaz pellets.
Do I need to adjust quantities or times to account for this, or are they essentially the same?

 

[manticle]

Rule of thumb - 10% more flowers by weight (dried) than pellets, at least as far as bittering goes. Many brewing software programs will adjust for you.

 

[Spork]

Thanks Manticle. So, 11g Simcoe flowers instead of 10g pellets. Do I reduce the D Saaz (pellets) by 10% also? 6.3g?
Just trying the changes in BrewMate, I guess whatever gets closest to the original IBU.
The original gives 40.2 IBU's.
With mine (11 and 6.3) it gives 40.3 IBU's. Close enough.

 

[kelbygreen]

nop keep flavour the same.