Move To All Grain For Thirty Bucks

[PistolPatch]

Okay, here is a famous PistolPatch post for you guys (though some of you guys don't know me)...

This thread is popular but it does not mean it is correct. It is correct in a very basic manner and very incorrect in so many others...

Here are some points I would like readers of this thread to be aware of...

1. This thread is an abomination of BIAB which is a method of brewing that many of us older brewers spent countless hours researching, writing on and exploring. People like ThirstyBoy who is one of the few that has done countless mini-BIAB's would find this whole thread quite unbearable - as I do. (The title of the thread was actually plagiarised from an article written by ThirstyBoy.)

2. The thread does well in the fact that it is encouraging brewers to explore all-grain easily.

3. The thread does very badly in the fact that a lot of the most basic advice is actually totally incorrect.

4. The thread gets worse when myself and others stepped in to offer to help and this offer was ignored by the OP.

5. The advice gets worse again as the thread goes on and the OP gets more confident. Some advice I saw offered tonight is totally inappropriate.

If the readers of this thread want good sound advice then you should ask your questions here. You will get a solid answer there. There are a heap of very experienced mini-BIAB brewers that will help you there. The thread has been quiet for a while now as contributor concentration has been directed elsewhere. If you want accurate information then start posting in that thread. You will be looked after.

Please excuse my post here but from Post #1 some essential information was totally wrong. I did try several times to set it right to no avail. The incorrect information, the continued lack of acknowledgement to those who have worked on BIAB so hard, the willingness of so many brewers to offer good advice but stand still, shell-shocked, by this thread, has forced me to write.

And, busy though I am, this post has been a pleasure to write because in some ways, it says thanks to all the intelligent and experienced BIABrewers who have worked so hard to serve and help other brewers.

This thread could have been really good (as I posted here a few months ago) but I, and others, feel like we will spend years correcting a lot of the advice offered here.

So, my congratulations to brewers who have found this thread inspiring - you are right. My commiserations to those who have or will get stung by some of the advice.

If you are not comfortable asking questions in the thread I linked above, you should feel free to PM me - I will get back to you as soon as I can.

Cheers from a very dissapointed,
Pat

P.S. And that, is a PistolPatch post!

 

[Barley Belly]

To me, this topic was started to show people actually how easy it is to AG brew using items they already have at home.

I feel the advice being given by the OP, is knowledge gained from his experience and what works for him.

Just because it may contradict the "normal" or "popular" advice doesn't make it wrong. It works for the OP, so how could that be wrong.

I applaude the OP for thinking outside of the square. If someone didn't think outside the square every now and then, we would be all like sheep. Just because everyone is doing it and have done so after years of testing, doesn't make it right, it is just proven for them.

Beer making or brewing has many different methods, none are right, none are wrong, you just pick the one that works for you.

If you make a mistake, you learn from it.

That's just my opinion (or should I just stuck with the popular opinion).

 

[Nick JD]

P.S. And that, is a PistolPatch post!

Sometimes it better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an *******, than to open your mouth and prove it to everyone. So I'll not spew forth the abuse I initially wanted to write.

The real sad part is we can all see that Pat's mental state (at 2:14am) is probably a reflection of current events in his life and not his true feelings because this is what he wrote in this very thread as his first comment:

"Good to see a simple guide and that it is attracting a lot of interest. Well done! I have found a brewer here to re-write the BIABrewer website. Once done, we'll throw in a section of guides for varying levels of expertise and equipment. A couple of little corrections and this one might find itself there with the author's permission of course.

Donya,
Pat"

Cheer up, Pat.

 

[stuart13]

Okay, here is a famous PistolPatch post for you guys (though some of you guys don't know me)...

Faaark.... You didn't have QldKev over for a few jars before dropping this bomb did you? :lol:

 

[MarkBastard]

I guess the way to really know would be if someone sampled Nick's beer and thought it was nice. I'm game.

 

[Nick JD]

I guess the way to really know would be if someone sampled Nick's beer and thought it was nice. I'm game.

In Bottles: Boysenberry Kristallweizen, XXXX Bitter Clone, Southern Cross APA.

Fermenting: Generic PoR Carlton Clone, A Belgian Whatsit Blonde Thingy.

Brewing Next: Another 80:20 Wheat:Rice BSaaz Lager, Caramel & Peach Ale.

 

[Barley Belly]

In Bottles: Boysenberry Kristallweizen, XXXX Bitter Clone, Southern Cross APA.

Fermenting: Generic PoR Carlton Clone, A Belgian Whatsit Blonde Thingy.

Brewing Next: Another 80:20 Wheat:Rice BSaaz Lager, Caramel & Peach Ale.

Send a bottle of each my way

And I'll give you some feedback if I live to tell the tale h34r:

 

[levin_ae92]

Wow I had alot of respect for PP until now

 

[PistolPatch]

Yes, I wrote that post very badly.

The intention of the thread is very good but some of the advice being offered is very bad and I haven't seen it being corrected. That was my worry and that's all I should have said.

My apologies,
Pat

 

[levin_ae92]

I think it's fair enough to worry about someone brewing techniques, but if someone has a different way of brewing and is happy to share it with people they should be applauded! I do things differently again, taking points from the biab pioneers as well as some of the simplifying techniques of nick and my own style which works for me I owe both of you alot! I just don't like seeing people think their process is 'better' than someone elses. The point of a hobby is to do it your way and enjoy!

Thanks Nick and Pat!

 

[Fents]

Possible thread of the year now, keep going boys.

 

[Siborg]

Hi pistol patch.

Look, I find it good that you want to point out that there is bad advice offered, but could you please specify? I'm only new to the brewing scene, and I have read a lot of " expert" advice on these forums. Part of what has paved my way into some successful brews has been people such as yourself saying that something is wrong. I know then that this is not an agreed and common method, such as not mashing over 70 degrees.

I have used this thread as insipration to move into grains and I did a partial based around these methods. I learnt heaps and tried some methods I have never tried before. Now I know that nickjd is not an expert brewer, but I do know that his methods have made some decent beer, well I take his word for it... He wouldn't still be brewing as much and posting advice if all his brews were infected/ shitouse would he? I believe that at least gives him some credibility so I value his suggestions.
Now I'm not saying not to disagree, but specifying what aspects you disagree on would be far more beneficial to new all grainers than just saying that you disagree.

 

[Nick JD]

Yes, I wrote that post very badly.

The intention of the thread is very good but some of the advice being offered is very bad and I haven't seen it being corrected. That was my worry and that's all I should have said.

My apologies,
Pat

Do yourself a favour, Pat: list what's wrong and your corrections. Please keep in mind that my intention was never to provide a tutorial thread on BIAB (the Poms did this decades ago BTW), my intention was to do a tutorial on Stovetop Brewing - please bear this in mind when you list your corrections. If your corrections offer change that requires equipment not used here please keep them to yourself.

At the very least you'll probably either reinforce this thread or martyr it - so keep in mind that rapacious use of forceful and ego-inflating words such as the ones you've used above won't get anybody any closer to moving to all grain brewing.

And lastly, may I introduce you to a new word that sits nicely right in front of the word, criticism .......... constructive. :icon_cheers:

 

[Screwtop]

Don't see what all the kafuffel is about really. Read Nick JD's disclaimer :lol:

--------------------

DISCLAIMER: Nick has no idea what he's doing and as such no one should ever listen to him or attempt to repeat his brewing practices

 

[PistolPatch]

Wow! I have just scanned over the whole thread and I think I have made the biggest stuff-up I have ever done here for a long, long time.

For some reason I was under the impression that the mash temps used in this guide were wrong. I just checked. They aren't. Then I thought that there was a major problem in the yeast management. Just checked that. No major worries there. There were a few other things on my mind but they aren't even relevant to the intention of the thread.

Basically I pretty much got everything important wrong. This is a massive stuff up on my part.

Somehow in my brain I managed to think that serious errors I must have read elsewhere actually came from this guide. What an *****!

There are only two things I was able to see then and only one is major. First, be careful with putting hydrometers in liquids over 40 degrees. Some will break. Secondly, the cleaning of fermenters mentioned above is a bit dodge. Using Napisan without scrubbing and then following through with some sort of regular acid wash will bite some people on the bum in time.

So, I officially declare my Thursday night post to be totally atrocious.

I'm really very sorry about that. My only poor defence is that I have spent the last few months with very little sleep, sometimes none, trying to get some massive projects completed to certain deadlines. I think I must have burned my brain .

Cheers and massive apologies from a very silly Pat.

Edit: Just saw your post above Nick. Hope the above helps to fix my stuff-up.

 

[bum]

If your corrections offer change that requires equipment not used here please keep them to yourself.

Ridiculous. Potential converts of this thread should take special note here. This isn't about making good beer. This is about...I don't even know. What is it about, Nick? Pissing people off? Well done - mission accomplished.

 

[Nick JD]

Ridiculous. Potential converts of this thread should take special note here. This isn't about making good beer. This is about...I don't even know. What is it about, Nick? Pissing people off? Well done - mission accomplished.

Bum, if I pissed you off as well as helping some people learn to make beer from grain then, well, you know I'm just so happy I'm lost for words.

You get the Easter Bunny with the Pancake on its Head, Award of the Year.

 

[Nick JD]

I'm really very sorry about that. My only poor defence is that I have spent the last few months with very little sleep, sometimes none, trying to get some massive projects completed to certain deadlines. I think I must have burned my brain .

No worries, Pat. Stop working so hard and get some sleep! I hope the projects go well.

:icon_cheers: Nick.

 

[Nick JD]

There are only two things I was able to see then and only one is major. First, be careful with putting hydrometers in liquids over 40 degrees. Some will break. Secondly, the cleaning of fermenters mentioned above is a bit dodge. Using Napisan without scrubbing and then following through with some sort of regular acid wash will bite some people on the bum in time.

Good points.

I always rinse my hydrometer under the hot tap (60C) first to warm it to closer to the liquor temp (70C~ish). Touch wood, I haven't broken a hydrometer this way yet and it's a very, very cheap one. It's probably better to take a sample, cool it to 20C and take a reading - and that way you also won't have to do any conversions for temperature.

Everybody should use some type of no rinse sanitizer. I use boiling water and get away with it (largely because my fermenter is only ever full with either wort, or napisan, or boiling water/steam) - empty fermenters are a sure-fire way to go straight to Hell in a Handbasket .

 

[PistolPatch]

Donya and thank you Nick.

I'm going to bed now .