Move To All Grain For Thirty Bucks

[Rodolphe01]

The 5 is 'about 5', probably closer to 8 actually

I dunk sparge the bag so figured it would be beneficial to leave as much volume as possible available in my pot for the boil to use as sparging water, i.e. use a minimum for the actual mash.

I guess my concern lies with leaving all that sugary goodness in the bag and having no room left to boil the runnings from sparging.

In the batch where I did 3.5kg, it was only 15l into the fermenter, I ask how much others get away with becasue I could probably get away with more grain as I didn't account for grain absorbtion losses. In that batch, because of the absorbtion loss, I was able to sparge with more water than I thought I would be able to.

I might just try 4.5kg for the next batch and if I have any overflow I can boil it in a second 20l pot as I have 2. Is there a rough ratio that grain absorbs water by? Trial and error sucks

 

[RdeVjun]

The 5 is 'about 5', probably closer to 8 actually

I dunk sparge the bag so figured it would be beneficial to leave as much volume as possible available in my pot for the boil to use as sparging water, i.e. use a minimum for the actual mash.

I guess my concern lies with leaving all that sugary goodness in the bag and having no room left to boil the runnings from sparging.

In the batch where I did 3.5kg, it was only 15l into the fermenter, I ask how much others get away with becasue I could probably get away with more grain as I didn't account for grain absorbtion losses. In that batch, because of the absorbtion loss, I was able to sparge with more water than I thought I would be able to.

I might just try 4.5kg for the next batch and if I have any overflow I can boil it in a second 20l pot as I have 2. Is there a rough ratio that grain absorbs water by? Trial and error sucks

Yep, I can relate to all that Rudi. The mash volume you're using is still very low, I'd increase it by 50%. After the boil, my volumes often end up back where I started, i.e. mash with about 15L, sparge with 6L, then losses to caramelisation, absorbtion and evaporation eat most of that up and so it comes back to 15L, maybe higher if I am generous with the sparge or don't caramelise. Perhaps one other thing you could do is add sparge after some has evaporated too, but I do that usually with a 90 minute boil.
I've been working on about a litre of water absorbed per kilo of grain. See how you go!
:icon_cheers:

 

[Nick JD]

I'm in NZ at the moment, so I can't look at the Blue Book O Brews - everyone's correct about the efficiencies going south when you add too much grain to this technique. I've never been able to get more than 10L of 1.076 (IIRC) - which diluted to 23L is a mid strength beer of about 3-3.5%.

And yes, 10L of beer bubbling away in a 23L fermenter does look seriously sad ... and more importantly doesn't keep that belly satiated.

My best advice to those trying (or going to try) this method is to go out and buy a 12L fermenting vessel. Keep doing the 25L barrel for your stocks ... do mini AGs as an "aside" project. Much of the benefit of this technique is having a high turnover rate. Your AG skills and recipe development proceeds at roughly 3 times the speed.

 

[limebouquet]

[quote name='O'Henry' post='543643' date='Oct 27 2009, 11:09 PM']Last brew I also used the laundry sink to cool and had a load of washing on as well. I used the spin off water to cool it and just lifted the lid when it was enough water, drained when warm then re added water. Needed hardly any from the tap.[/quote]
Full marks for saving water.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Guys - if you have multiple 20L pots and you are happy to go to the effort of sparging... then to work out what you can and cant do volume wise, you might be better served reading some of the non-biab threads. Specifically the batch sparging ones.

People who dont BIAB - normally mash at a maximum of 3L for every kg of grain - with the rest of their liquor being sparge liquor. BIAB only mashes at the higher ratio, because it was designed to be a no-sparge technique using one pot and it was a necessary compromise - it happens to work really well, but that doesn't make the high amount of strike water in any way necessary.

You can mash sucessfully with down to around 2L for every kg of grain (or even a tiny bit less) and that allows you to fit more grain into your mash tun.. which in your case is 20L. You could nicely fit 6.5-7kg of grain in a 20L pot with a liquor to grist ratio of 2.1:1 - and that will work fine. You would pull your bag leaving behind about 9.5L of wort - and so you would sparge with whatever the difference is between that and your desired pre-boil volume... I would do it in two "batches" of about 9.25-9.5L which means you know each lot will fit everything in your pot, and will give you a pre-boil around 28-29L... which you just do as a split boil in your 2x20L pots..

No dilution required and a full batch of 24L of say 1.069 wort.

Dont get too locked into the BIAB mindset - you guys who are sparging and diluting etc etc, aren't doing BIAB as it was originally designed and you dont have to follow the same rules to make it work. BIAB in its original form was intended to be as simple as possible and use just one pot.... this introduced limitations which you fellas don't have, so you can do it differently.

Like I said... its just batch sparging with a bag instead of a false bottom... all been done before a million times before. Search out the batch sparging info and I think you will find a wealth of knowledge that will help you along nicely.

 

[Mayor of Mildura]

How funny are these last couple of posts. Here's my story.
I thought i'd give this AG brewing caper a go a couple of weeks ago. After reading through this thread i thought How hard can it be!
I also thought 10L bah i know boats i'll go a higher gravity and dilute down.
Every thing seemed to be going ok at the start. used beersmith to make the calculations for a small pot etc.
I was making a wit. 50% pils 45% raw wheat and 5% oats.
But then i worked out that 6kg of grain in a 15l pot with 8l of water made a really really thick porridge ( i bent my coopers spoon). When i lifted the bag out after my 90 minute mash i was left with about 2l of wort in the bottom of the pot and a very slow dribble out the bottom of the bag. So i thought a "dunk sparge" would be in order. But my other pot is only 10l and the bag wouldn't fit. So i had to improvise and quickly cleaned out the nappy bucket and used that.
After 2 rounds of nappy bucket soaking action i ended up with more than 15l so i had to use 2 pots and do 2 boils.
To top it off i had a boilover on the stove and set off the fire alarm in the early hours of the morning. SWMBO was particularly happy with me.
In the end though i ended up with 23L @ 1048.
And i learnt lots and had a ball in the process.
So the moral of the story is i guess even with limited equipment ( and even more limited knowledge) you can still make beer.
and that is good.

 

[goomboogo]

How funny are these last couple of posts. Here's my story.
I thought i'd give this AG brewing caper a go a couple of weeks ago. After reading through this thread i thought How hard can it be!
I also thought 10L bah i know boats i'll go a higher gravity and dilute down.
Every thing seemed to be going ok at the start. used beersmith to make the calculations for a small pot etc.
I was making a wit. 50% pils 45% raw wheat and 5% oats.
But then i worked out that 6kg of grain in a 15l pot with 8l of water made a really really thick porridge ( i bent my coopers spoon). When i lifted the bag out after my 90 minute mash i was left with about 2l of wort in the bottom of the pot and a very slow dribble out the bottom of the bag. So i thought a "dunk sparge" would be in order. But my other pot is only 10l and the bag wouldn't fit. So i had to improvise and quickly cleaned out the nappy bucket and used that.
After 2 rounds of nappy bucket soaking action i ended up with more than 15l so i had to use 2 pots and do 2 boils.
To top it off i had a boilover on the stove and set off the fire alarm in the early hours of the morning. SWMBO was particularly happy with me.
In the end though i ended up with 23L @ 1048.
And i learnt lots and had a ball in the process.
So the moral of the story is i guess even with limited equipment ( and even more limited knowledge) you can still make beer.
and that is good.

How would you describe the colour of your wit. Maybe, 'baby-shit yellow".

 

[Mayor of Mildura]

How would you describe the colour of your wit. Maybe, 'baby-shit yellow".

No not that dark. More like wee. And the aroma I thought it was the chamomile! :blink:

 

[Yeastie Beastie]

Where can I obtain one of these little puppies?
Anyone....
I trolled through the sponsors websites to no avail...

 

[Nick JD]

Where can I obtain one of these little puppies?
Anyone....
I trolled through the sponsors websites to no avail...

I think that's from Big W, or KMart. 18L IIRC. Just to be sure - get one that's designed to hold drinking water. The krausen ring dissolves in napisan after a day or you can make a tool to reach in for manual cleaning ... but I'm sold on the napisan technique now.

 

[Yeastie Beastie]

I think that's from Big W, or KMart. 18L IIRC. Just to be sure - get one that's designed to hold drinking water. The krausen ring dissolves in napisan after a day or you can make a tool to reach in for manual cleaning ... but I'm sold on the napisan technique now.

Cheers mate, I ended up stumbling across one in Big W on my trip to the city, SWMBO got it for me with some digi scales I "conveiniently" h34r: stumbled across lol.

 

[Yeastie Beastie]

Yep its syphon.

Cleaning the "voile" would be nothing other than a pain in the but plus it will melt if heated too high.


Darren (just offering an alternative)

Just for the record and for others wanting to know - Polyesters are dyed at 130 degrees C so unless you are boiling your wort at that temp you are fine. If you are boiling your wort at that temp there will be more to worry about than Voile.

 

[joebejeckel]

Great thread, I'm going to give it a go, I love the idea of a small quick brew that will be easy to modify if need be, thank you for the effort and the pics . got 5 kg's of grain in the post yezday and am off to the shed, thanks Nick JD

 

[Yeastie Beastie]

I did this recipe a few weeks ago but with 10g Carafa 2 and 14g Riwaka hops and it is fantastic.

Problem......I want to brew it again tonight but don't have any S04 yeast. As I live in the sticks I will not be able to get the correct yeast for 2-3 weeks.
I have a can of Coopers Real Ale and am thinking of using the yeast from that...What do you think the outcome will be?

 

[adam]

use the coopers yeast YB - better than waiting all that time. All other things being equal the flavour profile will be similar with perhaps a little coopers 'breadiness' and less floculation.

cheers

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I did this recipe a few weeks ago but with 10g Carafa 2 and 14g Riwaka hops and it is fantastic.

Problem......I want to brew it again tonight but don't have any S04 yeast. As I live in the sticks I will not be able to get the correct yeast for 2-3 weeks.
I have a can of Coopers Real Ale and am thinking of using the yeast from that...What do you think the outcome will be?

Although it won't happen overnight, I know that the Queensland- and Melbourne- based sponsors of this site will mail you yeast.

 

[Yeastie Beastie]

Although it won't happen overnight, I know that the Queensland- and Melbourne- based sponsors of this site will mail you yeast.

I mostly have grain, hops, yeast etc delivered via our sponsors and have NEVER had an issue, they are great. Just really want to do a brew tonight and seeing if this yeast is suitable.
Im not very well informed on the yeast side of things...it is to be my next learning curve...
Also thanks adam for the reply.

 

[Nick JD]

That coopers yeast will make a great brew. It'll compact much harder on the bottom of the bottles and give off a lots less fruitiness.

It'll stop when it's run out of sugars like it's hit a brick wall.

You'd really not want it above 22 C though.

EDIT: Don't be afraid to bottle (sanitized 300ml PET coke bottle) the crap at the bottom next time and use that in your next brew.

 

[bimbo]

Thanks so much for this thread. I have brewed some K&K before and made drinkable but not fantastic beer (I was at uni at the time so most things where drinkable)
I don't drink much and prefer quality over quantity. Lately I have been drinking JS Golden ale and using DS golden ale recipe i am doing my first AG BIAB tomorrow.

 

[jakub76]

This thread inspired me to have a crack at All Grain brewing. I already had everything except the Voile and the confidence.

I tried an ambitious Kolsch recipe, 90% Pilsener + a bit of Vienna and Carapils. Tettnanger Hops & US-05 yeast. I wish I had listened to Nick JD and made a simple pale ale.

I followed the instructions on this thread fairly closely. I found the 66 degree sweet-spot on my oven dial so mashing didn't require scorched dunas. My kettle came off the stove and into the oven, lost no temperate at all throughout the hour. I cooled my wort in an ice bath - one load of cold tap water until the water became warm. Then replaced with fresh tap water and some frozen water bottles...got to pitching temp in an hour.

Unfortunately my fermentation temperature got all messed up with around 7 degrees fluctuation ending up at 26! I tried cold conditioning the bottles in the fridge for two weeks before I was tempted to taste one. Pouring it was promising, a thick white head, beautiful golden colour. The smell was a bit wierd but the taste...how disappointing; sour, powdery and a stale socks/leathery after-taste.

Anyway I persevered and did a traditional mash on a Blonde Ale recipe a couple of weeks later. While my Blonde was fermenting I had my fridge set at 17 degrees so the remaining Kolsch bottles got a week of conditioning at 17. Wow what a difference a week makes! Now the sour and powdery taste is all gone, unfortunately the leathery/staleness persists slightly and now I recognise it as exactly the same aftertaste as Carlton Draught, but overall the beer tastes so much better. Still not a triumph, and probably not really a Kolsch

I had my reservations but after tonights session I feel BIAB is vindicated...plus it's a great, confidence building bridge between extract/partial and AG brewing.

Cheers Nick JD, great thread!