Mmm....Is the Gov starting to crackdown on distilling ?

[madpierre06]

Sorry to hear of your woes madpierre, hope you can manage to land yourself a full time job sooner than later, keep your chin up.

Thanks WEAL but to be honest I am choosing not to work full time as I have a casual job in in-home disability support and am studying for a degree in counselling. I walked away from a full time job to do so as I felt called in that direction having come from a pretty despicable and dysfunctional way of life. I have a way of life now in which my family's needs are met so am comfortable with my work/study situation and that way of life gives me the strength to keep doing what I'm doing without getting or staying down.

I do get a bit antsy about some of the aspects of our discussion as I lost a reasonably close mate to that very insanity after he reached a opoint where he couldn't take the knocks any more, so there was nothing personal against you, just the subject matter.

 

[spog]

#%*k me if you do not walk tall. Onya.

 

[goomboogo]

For our part, we vote in a party to lead us, we have to put our trust in that party to do the right thing for Australia and its people, which is what I am sure they do, K Rudd was a more than willing participant to sign up to these agreements, so it is not a left or right matter (apart from Gillard). Do you not think that the government lawyers and economic experts have not checked everything out, and whatever agreements we sign it is the same for all signatories.

I understand you find it difficult to believe a government would be a signatory to an agreement that benefits a few to the detriment of the many. Unfortunately, the world has been heading in this direction for a very long time. The Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) is the latest example of an instrument designed to widen the gulf between the powerful and the other 99.9999999999999999999%.

The TPP currently under negotiation has provisions for corporations to take legal action if a signatory state enacts legislation or regulation that is detrimental to the profit outcome of an interested corporation. This type of agreement facilitates the establishment of Supra-National tribunals that fall outside any national judicial system. Signatories to such agreements are bound by the decisions of the tribunal. There is an absence of accountability for the tribunal nominees.These tribunals can declare a law enacted by a democratically-elected government to be illegal and impose fines on the state for breaches.

So, there is a prospect of a sovereign state being sued as a result of a national government taking legislative or regulatory action in the name of the population for the benefit of the citizenry. The welfare of the people of a country plays second fiddle to the desires of a multi-national corporation, irrespective of who you vote for; because the legal balance will be heavily weighted against state. Subsequently, the government of the day is likely to be legislatively gun-shy when it comes to areas that may affect very large corporations.

There is little wonder our politicians want the deal done without scrutiny.

 

[manticle]

Since WEAL's interpretation of world politics is:
'We vote them in, they sort it out, good job boys (except that chick)'

then I think I can return to my whisky.

 

[sponge]

Dw mants, I'll always allow you to return to your whisky, no matter my political views.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Since WEAL's interpretation of world politics is:
'We vote them in, they sort it out, good job boys (except that chick)'

That's democracy manticle they are voted in and complete their term, if they **** up they don't get a second term.

ISDS agreements have been around for over 50 years, Australia is getting sued by Phillip Morris from a 1993 agreement which Phillip Morris are tipped to loose because the government retains the power to look after the health and safety of its people.
Has the sky fallen in, no, each signatory country has the same agreement imposed they haven't singled out one or two countries to bear the brunt of possible litigation.
I also don't agree with the idea of a multinational country suing a country, neither do many of the population of other signatory countries including USA, (which has never lost a case brought against it and they have over 50 agreements in place).
We need not sign, and be left out of the trading groups, would we be better off, no, we would be out in the cold, I for one believe we are better in than out.

 

[manticle]

Democracy is a shade more than that but the whisky was nice anyway.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

SO why do WE as the people who elect the government allow them to sign and enter into agreements like this in secret....

We ( the people ) dont even know what is in these agreements.....but we let a VERY SMALL amount of people sign off on these without scrutiny

Doesnt seem very democratic to me....

 

[Goose]

The old adage is that people deserve the Governments they elect.

Probably a truism of democracy

 

[Dave70]

SO why do WE as the people who elect the government allow them to sign and enter into agreements like this in secret....

We ( the people ) dont even know what is in these agreements.....but we let a VERY SMALL amount of people sign off on these without scrutiny

Doesnt seem very democratic to me....

Because nothing would ever get done otherwise. Can you imagine?
Lets face it, even armed with the knowledge of what goes on behind closed doors, how many people do you think actually have the comprehensive skill to interpret the data and make an informed decision? I sure don't.

Here you go Dave, here's five thousand pages of text relating to the proposed TPP agreements, have a read and let us know what you think.

Its dangerous enough as it is letting a politically naive electorate vote in the first place.
Dictatorships. Its just easier.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

SO why do WE as the people who elect the government allow them to sign and enter into agreements like this in secret....

We ( the people ) dont even know what is in these agreements.....but we let a VERY SMALL amount of people sign off on these without scrutiny

Doesnt seem very democratic to me....

We as the people elect the government to govern as they seem fit, and are allowed to by the opposition, entering agreements or breaking agreements, paying people smugglers or not paying people smugglers, of course these agreements get scrutinized, by both major parties doesn't matter which party is in power they will be signed off on, or knocked back.

 

[goomboogo]

WEAL, are you happy for millions of taxpayer dollars to be spent defending the Phillip Morris case? The case would never have been initiated in the absence of an ISDS.

I know I'm banging my head against a wall but sometimes, I like to imagine a world that is more equitable than the the one we currently have. As each year passes the balance shifts even further in the favour of a very small number of people. This process has been facilitated by all politicians. There is no difference between the LNP and the Labor party. They are 2 heads of the very same beast.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

But the oppostion parties are not allowed to view the TPP until it is signed

And anyway....If the opposition doesnt have the number ( which is why they are in opposition ) then the government of the day can do what they like. And do

I like how you say " to govern as THEY seem fit "

 

[mje1980]

Well that is how it works. Anybody can enter politics, have a go

 

[goomboogo]

A lone voice in the political system is mute.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Unless your in the side of those in power...your voice means sweet **** all

 

[mje1980]

Youre right, it's way too hard. Whinging on the Internet though, damn that's easy

 

[wide eyed and legless]

WEAL, are you happy for millions of taxpayer dollars to be spent defending the Phillip Morris case? The case would never have been initiated in the absence of an ISDS.

I know I'm banging my head against a wall but sometimes, I like to imagine a world that is more equitable than the the one we currently have. As each year passes the balance shifts even further in the favour of a very small number of people. This process has been facilitated by all politicians. There is no difference between the LNP and the Labor party. They are 2 heads of the very same beast.

As I said I would sooner there be no ISDS treaty than if there were, if Phillip Morris loses the case the it is Phillip Morris who foots the costs of Australia's legal team. Also it isn't just the effect on corporations and countries but also is there to protect individuals working in those countries.(As in the case of Peter Greste working for Al Jazeerah).
Years ago the doomsayers used to trudge the street with a placard around their neck saying the end of the world is nigh, nowadays they just get on the internet and scare the crap out of anyone who will read their messages.

 

[zarniwoop]

This is why I don't like compulsory voting, it just forces people who are uninformed and don't care about politics to vote, and as most people are influenced by mainstream media we end up with a government decided by the producers of A Current Affair etc.

Be better if I ran things I reckon....

 

[seamad]

As I said I would sooner there be no ISDS treaty than if there were, if Phillip Morris loses the case the it is Phillip Morris who foots the costs of Australia's legal team. Also it isn't just the effect on corporations and countries but also is there to protect individuals working in those countries.(As in the case of Peter Greste working for Al Jazeerah).
Years ago the doomsayers used to trudge the street with a placard around their neck saying the end of the world is nigh, nowadays they just get on the internet and scare the crap out of anyone who will read their messages.

And here I was thinking it was abbott and murdoch who were trying to scare the crap out of people, look over there, the death cult.