Mashing - Ratio's, times and temps

[OBeck]

Hi All,

Hoping for a little help, I'm just brewing my 4th AG brew at the moment whilst doing a bit of research around mashing. The first couple seem to have turned out pretty well (Bright Ale clone and Single hop Nelson Sauv Pale Ale using the same grain bill as the Bright ale).

I thought I'd stick to the grain bill I've been using for my current brew which from initial taste is good. I currently brewing a single hop Motueka (B Saaz) Pale Ale but I was hoping for some help around ratios, mash temps and time frames. What I'm currently doing is a half batch;

3kg grain to 15 Litres of liquer, mash for 90 mins at 70 degs, does that sound about right?

I read that the ideal midpoint is 1.5litres to 500g grain, 65-68 degs for 1 hour... All of which I'm well over!

I guess I'm trying to understand more about characteristics of different hops and malts so I can eventually start designing my own recipes, do you have any advice how to get to that point?

Cheers for any help in advance!

Oliver

 

[barls]

thats a lot of liquid. is it a biab?
personally I'm between 2.5 and 3L per kg of liquid in the mash at around 65 most times as a balance. 72 for my milds and low alcohol beers and 62 for my big arse ones.
basically the higher the temp the less fermentable the wort is so more mouth feel and less alcohol. as an example this is what I'm brewing today this is the instructions from my brewing program

• Gravity Before Boil: 1.036 SG (9.3 Brix)
• Original Gravity: 1.043 SG (11.2 Brix)
• Final Gravity: 1.010 SG (6.1 Brix)
• 
  
• Volume Before Boil: 56.00 l
• Volume After Boil: 46.00 l
• Volume Transferred: 46.00 l
• Water Added To Dilute: 0 ml
• Volume At Pitching: 46.00 l
• Volume Of Finished Beer: 44.00 l
• 
  
• Total Water Required: 63.68 l
• Total Grain: 7.682 kg
• 
  
• Batch Cost: $0.00

Preparation
If using a yeast starter prepare one a couple of days in advance.
If necessary crush the grains.
Heat 15.36 l of water to 81 ˚C.
Add the following salts.

• 46 g of gypsum.
• 23 g of chalk.

Mashing
Dough in the following fermentable ingredients.

• 3.450 kg of Bairds Perle Malt
• 3.450 kg of Briess ashburn mild
• 522 g of Australian Crystal 140
• 260 g of Dingemans Biscuit Malt

Mash pH should be 5.2.
Allow the temperature to stabilize at 65 ˚C. Allow to rest at this temperature for 90 minutes.
Add 20.32 l of water at 65 ˚C, mix and run off.
Add a further 28.00 l of water at 65 ˚C and mix.
Run off to collect a total of 56.00 l of wort.



Boiling
As the wort is coming to boil, add the following 'first wort hops'.

• 41 g of UK Northdown

Bring the water to the boil.
Add the following hops at the times given.

• 35 g of UK Northdown (30 Min From End)
• 41 g of UK Northdown (1 Min From End)

Also add the following during the boil.

• 2.32 g of Whirlfloc Tablet

Boil the wort for a total of 60 minutes.
Chill the wort to the appropriate pitching temperature and rack the wort to your fermenter.

 

[razz]

7.5:1 ratio is probably at the upper limit for mashing Obeck, but if it works then it works. I recirculate in the mash tun and generally use 3 or 4:1malt to water ratio so I get a good fluid like mash that recircs well. With a high dilution ratio you, theoretically, dilute the enzymes in the mash.

 

[OBeck]

Hi Baris, thanks for that mate. Yes it's a BIAB, so reckon after the boil I'll end up with about 11-12 litres transferred into the fermenter (at a guess)'. I did a similar one with a similar grain bill, again 15Litres last week, the Original gravity was 1.052.

I see you mash for 90mins but at a lower temp, I guess that will make yours more fermentable, I'll give that a try next time.

Cheers,

Oliver.

 

[OBeck]

Hi guys,

I've actually edited it now, I've actually 3kg of grain to 15L of water, ratio of 5:1 which brings it in a little. The book I'm reading mentions the ideal would be 3:1 so I'm still over that, I guess it doesn't matter if it works right?

It's more so once I've got a few more brews under my belt I can start designing my own beers rather than following other people's recipes.

Thanks for the help.

 

[manticle]

Various studies have shown mash efficiency may actually be increased by higher strike liquor (within limits - my copy of de Clerck is packed away but I remember 6 L to 1 kg being fine). 2.5 per kg is actually the bottom end. Whole lot of factors at play.

To OP - how you are mashing will influence what the actual ratios are, as suggested.
70 is very high but it does depend on what you're chasing. There are two main sets of enzymes responsible for reducing carbohydrate chains. One is optimised around 60 -65 fegrees and will be rapidly (not immediately) denatured at 70. The other is optimised closer to 70 so you are favouring alpha amylase action. As I said - ot depends entirely on preferred results. Most people will mash lower than that for most beers. If favouring alpha and more dextrinous beer, you won't need to go for 90 minutes.

As for how to get to that point - read, brew, taste, adjust. Relate theory to practice and results.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

You want about 2.5-3:1 ratio

So 9ltrs for 3Kg and 15L for 5Kg of grain

Note that BIAB is different

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Thats strange. Going by my software it recomends 2.5 to 1. But my first brew book recomends 2 to 1. (just enough so the grain sits just under the surface of the water. 2 to 1 will do that. I do it a touch over 2 to 1 and several batch sparging after mash. Grain has its own ph buffering ability without using water chemistry adjustments. Far from expert here but I thought too much water can mess up the chemestry like too high PH hindering enzime chemestry. I'm confused. :unsure: I do get high efficience though so I'm not changeing my ways atm.

Other than that, Software is an excellent way to step up to designing your own recipes. Its so cool. B)

 

[manticle]

Water amounts will affect pH but the dilution of enzyme thing I think is a bit of a myth. Otherwise BIAB mash efficiency would be way low compared with mashing in an esky and sparging. All else being equal, that simply isn't the case.

 

[wobbly]

I haven't tried it but there are a number of brewers on the Braumeister Forum that do full volume mashes. Fill a 20lt BM with around 34/36lts and carry out water treatment as/if required, drain off about 7/8lts and install malt pipe and grain and then add back the 7/8lts previously drained. This results in the malt pipe being totally covered/submerged for the duration of the mash.

I think Dicko on this forum has adopted this procedure so if he reads this he may want to comment on the pros and cons

Wobbly

 

[manticle]

http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Understanding_Efficiency#Mash_thickness

Further info on the enzyme dilution idea.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Understanding_Efficiency#Mash_thickness

Further info on the enzyme dilution idea.

Interesting. Maybe its why I get lower FG and lighter body than estimations. But I still get higher OG than estimations as well.
I will have to try a thinner mash next time and see what happens.
But that means you may have to consider water chemistry adjustments to keep pH down were it should be.
I really like the idea of pulling of good brews without any chemical or processed powder additives etc. Its too fiddly. -_-

 

[manticle]

No different to adding salt to a steak. Water is a chemical. I like simple, 'natural' ingredients and processes as much as possible and prefer to add less, rather than more but adding a touch of gypsum to a brew isn't gene synthesis.

 

[manticle]

Also depends massively on water makep, grist, etc.

 

[Vini2ton]

I biab with the basic ratio of 3 to 1 with a dunk sparge of 1 to 1. It seems to work well. Experiment with stuff like temps and times (what your asking) and keep records of your processes because sometimes it wont make any sense why 2 same things can behave ever so slightly different and produce a different result beeramentally. Amazing. Do hippies put salt on steak?