Mash To Fermenter In One Day

[bum]

Carlton Draught..."made from beer"

How do they make it from beer? Just add water to it?

That makes a lot of sense, now that I think about it.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Renegade -

You idea will work perfectly well, sure you have to add in a few litres here and there for losses to trub and whatnot - but if you can keep the ice sterile and you add in a bit of extra hops for the lower utilisation ... it will work just fine.

You will however almost certainly get absolutely abysmal efficiency. You have no sparge in your process and you also dont have the large amount of strike water you have in BIAB. AND your wastages are at a much higher concentration. So every litre of liquid lost to grain absorption and to trub ... contains two to three times more sugar than it would in a BIAB or other type of brew.

You are basically talking about a no-sparge, first runnings only beer. If you got much more than 50% efficiency into the boil I would be surprised; and even worse (proportionally) into the fermenter.

I might be wrong - everyone assumed that BIAB efficiencies would be appaling - and that was wrong. But it was wrong for a whole bunch of reasons, the vast majority of which you are removing from your process.

So - your proposed technique will give you beer, and I can't see a lot to say that it would be bad quality beer - but it certainly has a few marks on the con side of the list too.

TB

 

[haysie]

Why complicate, 50% eff, underhopped, most likely unsterilised ice. Yet we get "It will work just fine" Work fine for what? A starter?

Pollux,
"Be buggered if I would want to sit there and chill the wort, sanitise the fermenter and pitch."

Dont you sanitise and pitch? Yes? Just on on another day right? Its all the same, you just dont see your fermenter krausning 4 hours after boil. No need too high ho the no chill method, its been done before.
My argument to yours is brew day is over in 12 hours(fermenting wort), you drag it out.

 

[Pollux]

Dont you sanitise and pitch? Yes? Just on on another day right? Its all the same, you just dont see your fermenter krausning 4 hours after boil. No need too high ho the no chill method, its been done before. My argument to yours is brew day is over in 12 hours(fermenting wort), you drag it out.

This is true, but I prefer to space it out, it allows me to combine a process of bottling, then racking the primary to secondary, and then pitching a new wort to primary.

I brew on my days off (Thurs/Fri) and do all my bottling/racking on mondays while my daughter is in childcare. I never spouted that NC is better than chilling, more that NC works better for me in my current situation.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Why complicate, 50% eff, underhopped, most likely unsterilised ice. Yet we get "It will work just fine" Work fine for what? A starter?

sorry for trying to point out which parts of the poster's proposed process are and are not valid and why - next time I will try to tell him to just shut up and try not to think for himself.

As a matter of fact no-sparge brewing using only first runnings is hardly unknown and obviously works - it simply trades money and extra ingredients for time and effort. There is in fact some argument that it produces a superior beer. It would work fine, no matter how many eye rolling emoticons you throw at it.

I wouldn't brew that way - but renegade isn't me and he isn't you - maybe he see's the pros and cons and thinks he is right on the money, maybe he decides that there are things he didn't consider and re-evaluates.

Life is complicated - I tend to think people are grown up enough to deal with it.

 

[PostModern]

I would agree with TB. Give it a go and report back.

No reason not to brew at high gravity and dilute with ice. I brew for 17 litre no-chill cubes and diltute to 21L in the fermenter for 20L in the keg. OP's method could work.

 

[haysie]

It couldnt work!! Renegade, instead of starting crappy test the water threads, brew it and tell us all about it.
Otherwise, I see a thread of conflict.
Haysie

 

[haysie]

sorry for trying to point out which parts of the poster's proposed process are and are not valid and why - next time I will try to tell him to just shut up and try not to think for himself.

As a matter of fact no-sparge brewing using only first runnings is hardly unknown and obviously works - it simply trades money and extra ingredients for time and effort. There is in fact some argument that it produces a superior beer. It would work fine, no matter how many eye rolling emoticons you throw at it.

I wouldn't brew that way - but renegade isn't me and he isn't you - maybe he see's the pros and cons and thinks he is right on the money, maybe he decides that there are things he didn't consider and re-evaluates.

Life is complicated - I tend to think people are grown up enough to deal with it.

And how good are you? Sit back take pot shots about emoticons. iMaybe you havent dotted the i`s and t`s. Whatever, I dont reckon should be a u n i shiitfight, happy too go there though.
Renegade, did you learn anything? I dont reckon you did.

 

[Renegade]

sorry for trying to point out which parts of the poster's proposed process are and are not valid and why - next time I will try to tell him to just shut up and try not to think for himself.

Don't do that - I thought your post was right on the money, it gives me further thoughts not previously considered. You have outlined some of the potential reasons why this may not be the best route. Quite interested in looking at hop utilisation & malt extraction further, out of general functionality for all my future brews, even before going to AG. Would it be correct to say that there is a maximum saturation point of sugars in water, and once the water is 'full' of malts in suspension, it simply doesnt have the ability to operate as an efficientextraction solvent any longer? This would explain the traditional requirement in brewing to do a second run of water intto half-spent grain.

Re - Hope utilisation - It obvioulsy affected by last brew, a Belgian, that on first tastings is quite underhopped for the amount of pellets & AA I used - I would have been doing my boil with at least 15 times the pitching OG

It couldnt work!! Renegade, instead of starting crappy test the water threads, brew it and tell us all about it.
Otherwise, I see a thread of conflict.
Haysie

Oh come on pal. I'm trying to better understand the pro's & cons so I can work out what gear I need. There's far more crappier questions that get posted here than this one. Sure I could get into it as a 'paint by numbers' process, but I like hearing from the more experienced members as to why stuff works, or in this case why it probably doesnt. Obviously I have misinterpreted the spirit of this forum, which I thought was about the exchanging of knowledge from the experienced people in a particular field to the up & coming brewers. Im trying to do my bit by answering some of the newbie questions that pop up, based on my own experience with extracts etc, considering it a fair exchange for the questions I ask (freeing you guys up to focus on my 'crappy threads' LOL). But maybe I should take your stance haysie, and tell them to get stuffed.

Anyway, end of rant. Hope everyone enjoys their long weekend, mine started at 5pm yesterday.

 

[Renegade]

Renegade, did you learn anything? I dont reckon you did.

Sure did. Learned a whole lot about your nature, for one thing.

 

[justsomeguy]

Would it be correct to say that there is a maximum saturation point of sugars in water, and once the water is 'full' of malts in suspension, it simply doesnt have the ability to operate as an efficientextraction solvent any longer? This would explain the traditional requirement in brewing to do a second run of water intto half-spent grain.

There is a point where no more sugar/malts are going to dissolve into water, though I doubt we would reach it when brewing.

You can also think of it this way. Fill a glass with hot water. Now replace half of the hot water with cold water. The water you now have in the glass isn't cold but it isn't hot either. You have extracted some of the hot water but there is still some mixed in the glass. Extracting the sugars works in a similar way. The sugars from the malts dissolve into the water until an equilibrium is reached. When batch sparging we drain the water containing the sugars then refill with more water. After refilling the system is no longer in equilibrium and tries to stabilise itself again by distributing what sugars are left through the water again until its all equal again. If you dump and refill again the same thing happens, system isn't in equilibrium and redistributes the sugars throughout.

Fly sparing works a similar way. As the water moves down through the grain bed it 'picks' up more and more sugars until its in equilibrium with the system and can't 'hold' any more.

Maybe this clears things up a little on that end, or maybe not... :blink:

garyd