March Pumps - The Situation

[SpecialK]

Good morning Everyone.

Well it's been a while since I've posted here, but I've definitely been hearing from a few members here and retailers alike regarding March pumps and the situation.

Some people here have been insinuating that we have organised to deal exclusively with Grain and Grape regarding March pumps. This is flatly not true. How did this come about.

I will attempt to explain the situation from Process Pumps' point of view.

We were approached by some members here about organsing a Bulk Buy. In the past these happened infrequently and we had no problem in helping out. However as these became more frequent many (note: MANY) of our retailers were worried about undercutting prices etc.. Margins on these pumps ARE NOT HUGE!!

With this latest bulk buy enquiry We at process pumps decided to try something different in the attempt to keep everyone happy. It was our idea okay. No one elses.

Our idea was to offer ALL retailers special pricing for the month. Then the AHB community could liaise with whatever retailer they choose to try and organise the best outcome that suited everyone.

There was perhaps a badly worded email that left this office identifying John at Grain Gape as a contact for these pumps. It has seemingly been taken to mean that he has exclusivity. I make this clear: Grain & Gape has never asked, hinted, or wished for exclusive rights to March pumps. Every retailer who approached us would have had special pricing for a bulk order, which could then be passed on to the community.

But maybe I was trying to be to idealistic. Trying to keep everyone happy is seemingly an unachievable outcome. I accept some responsibility, I have been unable to spend time on these forums due to work commitments. If I was more active then the vitriol that has been building could perhaps have been mitigated.

Anyway I am here now and if people have questions regarding the latest 'situation' then I will be more than happy to answer them.

Karl Koce.
Process Pumps (Aust.)

 

[peas_and_corn]

Thanks for posting this Karl, it clears a lot of the mystery surrounding what went on

 

[roger mellie]

Myth BUSTED

What will the conspiracy theorists do now?

Back to 911 boys! :wacko:

RM

 

[Supra-Jim]

Myth BUSTED

much more satisfying when the mythbuster boys follow up their myth busting with large explosion!!!

myth busted no the less though!

:icon_cheers: SJ

 

[chappo1970]

Good on ya SpecialK for clearing things up! :beerbang:

No doubt a few bubbles have been burst but that's the way of the world is it not?

 

[SpecialK]

Good on ya SpecialK for clearing things up! :beerbang:

No doubt a few bubbles have been burst but that's the way of the world is it not?

Well it all needed to be cleared up, that's for certain. Good people were unfairly having their name besmirched, and that's just not right in my books.

If there's any blame to be passed around then it should be shared between us (PP) and the people who make unfair assumptions.

Hopefully it's all water under the bridge, so to speak.

Cheers.

 

[brettprevans]

geez the bloody BB protestors have to get a life. i bet your all G20 protesters arn't u! sorry i take that back. i just hate dumb arse protestors and have been watching the news.


Karl - top post as usual. very clear


Edit:

it's all water under the bridge

dont you mean its water through the march pump :lol:

 

[Leigh]

Thanks for clearing that up Karl.

Not completely your fault though, as I said elsewhere, when organising a bulk buy we (as in AHB'ers) do need to have a single communication point. The multiple points of contact meant we were getting different parts of the story.

 

[brendo]

Yep... top work on the reply Karl - it is always good to get these things out in the open so no inferences can be drawn.

Cheers,

Brendo

 

[grainandgrape]

AHB Members

This is my first post. Im sorry for boring you but I would like to go over what happened in relation to the March Pump Bulk Buy from my point of view.

Firstly, thanks to Karl from Process Pumps for clarifying some things above.

Yesterday afternoon I was called by jeddog. He asked if I was interested in quoting for a Bulk Buy of March Pumps on AHB as I was a sponsor of the forum, and he thought I should have the opportunity. Initially, I said that I didnt think it would be worth my while as in the past Process Pumps had sold them to AHB at about the same price I pay for them.

I had been asked by about a dozen AHB members over the years to quote on Bulk Buys and had always been unable to win because AHB naturally go to my suppliers who will sell to them at the same price as they do to me. I cant compete with this and dont blame anyone organizing a Bulk Buy in this way. I would be doing the same thing in the same situation. For example, recently I have been asked to quote on Erlenmeyer flasks and Refractometers for bulk buys. The exception has been with the last Melbourne grain Bulk Buy which was organized brilliantly and seemed to work well. It was certainly run well by a couple of AHB guys.

jeddog said he and sera had been having some problems negotiating with Process Pumps and I said I would call my contact, Tom and see if he would give me a better price for 40 pumps. jeddog was very pleasant throughout.
I normally buy 4 or 6 pumps at a time for $220 plus GST and freight. It was $180 until the end of November. I sell them for $280 including GST. This makes a profit of $34.55 less the freight, or 14% profit.

Tom said he would call back after speaking to his people and did so after about 10 minutes offering me a price of $208 plus GST for 40 pumps. I decided on a Bulk Buy price of $250 including GST which makes a profit to me of $19.27 or 8%.
I think these profit margins speak for themselves and I find it difficult to believe that anyone who has supplied AHB on a Bulk Buy basis has made less than this.

I called jeddog back and told him that I would sell them at $250 & $270 including GST.

I then received a copy of the email to dicko from Greg at Process Pumps. As Karl has said, I did not ask for this email to be sent. I had no idea that they would send it. I am happy for Process Pumps, Ross, Beer Belly, Gryphon or anybody else to sell March Pumps. I have no criticism for Process Pumps as they would be unlikely to expect the response that ensued.
dicko sent me an email asking me to call. We went over the pricing and he asked me if I would be willing to send the pumps individually. I said that the quote I had worked out was on the basis of a Bulk Buy, as I had been asked to do by jeddog, as those I had been told about, and as the one I had been involved in. I also said that this would make it not so much a Bulk Buy as an individual buy, and that my regular customers would quite rightly expect me to honour that price at any time in the future. A Bulk Buy makes it a one off purchase and once it is over, it is over.

Ive been supplying all-grain brewers for 19 years. While Im far from perfect and Im sure I have made lots of mistakes I dont feel I have done anything terrible here. Theres definitely been an understandable misunderstanding on the basis of Gregs email to dicko but I think that more has been read into it than was actually there. Id like to speak to any of the posters, especially sera, to these threads and would ask that any of you call me on (03) 9687 0061 to discuss this. Im happy to pay you for your call costs if you would like.

Im happy to talk re quoting along the lines of Leighs suggestions in Post 129 of the Bulk Buy thread.

Thanks to those of you who put some humour into the thread, it helped. As you can imagine, I have found it hard to laugh (and sleep) over the last 18 hours. While we bumble along here as I'm sure many of you would acknowledge, I take the reputation of the business and myself seriously.

I know there are lots of great posters on AHB, many who are customers of mine, and I am very happy with paying Dane for the advertising as the forum does great things for the craft and of course helps my business. I would be very disappointed to lose customers as a result of this. Thanks for the support of those customers who have phoned.

Cheers

John

 

[browndog]

Well there you go, chalk one up for the retailers! Thanks for clearing that up Karl.


cheers

Browndog

 

[reg]

Well done to both John and Karl on their posts.
I have dealt with Karl before and found him to be great in both getting back to me with info and answering questions.

G & G is my local HBS and I have dealt with them for years, going back to when it was located near highpoint.
I have always found John and Chris and the other guys in there extremely helpful and always willing to help.
Even the late notice cracking of grain from time to time.
Also the brew days they put on at their expense for us novice AG brewers are great.
They have done a lot for the home brewing market over the years with sponsorships etc and this should come to mind before the slagging of a great local business.

I will be back there and my hip pocket will be hit as per usual.

Reg

 

[brettprevans]

more comments from the peanut gallery (thats me - as im not involved in this bb)

John (G&G) thx for posting. I dont see that you did anything wrong. Good job for being willing to provide quotes etc and not getti g pissed off at people for looking elsewhere. thats good business. so is explaining to non business peopple about profit margin etc.

Just buy a march pump from somewhere without making the seller loose money. then make some beer and drink it with mates. its all about the beer

 

[brendo]

Thanks for your reply John... these things do seem to have an unfortunate habit of getting carried away.

Looking forward to doing continued business with you.

Brendo

** No affiliation... just a happy customer who has always recieved friendly advice and great service from John and staff. **

 

[warrenlw63]

Thanks guys for making us realise what tightarses some of us can be. :lol:

Also for the great store etiquette. Maybe some of your peers could draw inspiration.

No association. Just a happy 12 year customer.

Warren -

 

[MarkBastard]

Great thread guys, I think transparency like this always solves all problems, and gives both parties a good insight into what is really going on, without all the assumptions and paranoia.

I've been involved in bulk buys outside of the home brew industry before. Typically what happens is a bunch of people on a forum get together and decide to buy something. They get numbers, say 50 buyers. They then go around to different retail outlets and negotiate the best price. The retail outlets expect a consolidated payment, and they expect a consolidated pick-up or delivery. That is their definition of a bulk buy.

I think people really need to step back and look at the lengths retailers here go to with bulk buys. I was amazed when I saw that the grain bulk buys resulted in the selling store splitting up sacks, allowing each person to pay separately, etc. I remember when I bought the 9L cornie keg in a bulk buy here, I paid individually, and they allowed me to pick-up with my own courier. That is insane service.

In fact I'd go as far as saying that what we do here are not even bulk buys, they're more consumer initiated 'sales' if anything.

Anyway, cheers to all the honest sellers on AHB :beerbang:

 

[brettprevans]

They get numbers, They then go around to different retail outlets and negotiate the best price. The retail outlets expect a consolidated payment, and they expect a consolidated pick-up or delivery. That is their definition of a bulk buy.

yup thats a bb and they should be run like that or expect to be charged for individual postage/courier.

Thats how i run the recent melb honey BB. i was the point of contact for the wholesaler. i paid in full, and i went to collect. distribution to AHBers was then my problem.

 

[samhighley]

i paid in full, and i went to collect. distribution to AHBers was then my problem.

Yes, that is what I would consider a 'bulk buy'.

 

[chappo1970]

John,
Thanks for airing the matter, you are without a doubt a gentleman. If Ross didn't have such a tight strangle hold on my wallet :lol: (and the misses and the kids <_< ) I would not hestitate ordering all my brewing needs through your business.

It is obvious to me that you are very passionate (and rightfully so) about your business, the craft in general and your businesses reputation. A few unwarranted and ill informed negatives IMO certainly don't tarnish my positive perception of your business in the slightest.

What some, not all ok so no need to go to town on me, do need to understand is profit is not a dirty little word. If I only made 8% profit in my business I would be broke and handing the keys to my house to the bank manager, 10 blokes would be unemployed, it's that bloody simple. Without profit where would the money come from to pay wages, rent, electricity, site sponsorship, new product lines, service, support etc?

IMO all the sponsor here do a bang up job and should be commend for the support that they give us in our brewing endeavours and that includes sponsoring this forum.

John keep up the good work mate! :icon_cheers:

Edit: retarded speeeeellling again!

 

[MarkBastard]

8% isn't a bad minimum profit for true bulk buys. That's if you're placing one order, receiving one order, and then passing on one order. The 8% times 50 units = a decent amount of money for the work involved. Not your core business of course.

Having had a stab at a small business arrangement, I really really learnt the value of not doing things at cost. It's jut not worth it when it comes to paperwork / BAS / tax time. The company I contracted to wanted me to use my credit card to buy things and then sell to the company at cost price (e.g. if I urgently needed to buy some equipment). After a couple of times I had to say no or I'd put 20% mark-up on everything, just to cover how annoying it is.