Making Invert Sugar

[Batz]

My digital thermometer turned up today so I'm making some tonight of tomorrow. :beerbang: Keen like anything!

batz

 

[mje1980]

How'd it go batz ??. I am going to keg my mild with 19% invert tomorrow. Tasting nice, if a little light bodied haha. Even the uk ales that have low finishing gravities with invert seem to drink with more mouthfeel than the fg would suggest. Love to know how to nail that. Will update in a few days on taste etc.

 

[Batz]

How'd it go batz ??. I am going to keg my mild with 19% invert tomorrow. Tasting nice, if a little light bodied haha. Even the uk ales that have low finishing gravities with invert seem to drink with more mouthfeel than the fg would suggest. Love to know how to nail that. Will update in a few days on taste etc.

I going to have a go at making it tonight mje, I bought some blackstrap yesterday to get it dark. Order is in for some speciality grains and yeast that should arrive next week sometime, then I'm doing a Chimay Blue clone...recipe done already. :beer:
Keep us posted how your mild tastes.

Batz

 

[GuyQLD]

Have you got the recipe handy Batz? I haven't been able to track down one I like the look of.

 

[mje1980]

Half carbed, but had a taste just now. Its very nice haha, compared to a standard mild ( i do lots ) the aroma seems more malty,and the body ,while light, doesn't feel too thin, considering this is just on 3%. In general, its drinking pretty nicely. I've cranked the gas up a little, and i'll compare it tonight with the other mild i have on tap. Im going to keep experimenting for sure. The batch of invert i have in the fridge was held at 116c for 2 hours, instead of one hour for this batch. Im going to try it in another mild i think.

 

[Batz]

Have you got the recipe handy Batz? I haven't been able to track down one I like the look of.

Wait until I try it, it may not be any good. :unsure:

 

[Mikedub]

need to add invert this week, my thermometer hasn't turned up and getting no response from seller,
some people have no consideration for digestible beer :angry:

 

[Endo]

It will be fine, it's very easy to overshoot the temp. As long as you get it back to around the correct temp for the majority of the cook you won't have any problems.

Thats not quite right. Depending on what you are trying to achieve flavour wise you will end up with different flavours. And if you are shooting for a dark candi syrup, then you will end up with something that leaves a nasty aftertaste in your beer if you go too far over. If you get it back quick enough I guess you will be ok.

I know, I did it Still hoping it will mellow out with age, but will see how it goes.

I used the attached PDF and made the LIght Amber, which was awesome, and the Double Stage Deep Amber which ended up going a bit over and produced burnt weird flavours. I couldnt have gone over by much either

Was trying to make a trappist rochefort 10 clone...

The PDF is based on the info from a podcast on Basic Brewing Radio: http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbr05-07-09candi.mp3 from memory the dude was a candi maker.


A tip for anyone would be to boil water and ensure your candi thermometer is reading 100c. Accuracy is very important

Oh... and if you do brew with Candi... Try the wort warm... Delicious!

View attachment Belgian Cani Sugar (Basic Brewing).pdf

 

[mje1980]

Cool little PDF there mate. Basically, the procedure you have says to heat to certain temp, then add water to drop again. Is that because doing that adds more flavour??. My mild is only half carbed, but I ended up sampling 5 or so pints last night. Very happy with it haha. Currently brewing a pale ale with some more.

Also, there is no mention of holding it for a set amount of time at temp. Do you need to?

 

[Endo]

Cool little PDF there mate. Basically, the procedure you have says to heat to certain temp, then add water to drop again. Is that because doing that adds more flavour??. My mild is only half carbed, but I ended up sampling 5 or so pints last night. Very happy with it haha. Currently brewing a pale ale with some more.

Also, there is no mention of holding it for a set amount of time at temp. Do you need to?

The water cools the syrup back under the softball temperature so you dont end up with hard candy.

No need to hold, you will see the colour change as it heats up. The dude explains it all in radio interview in more detail.

 

[mje1980]

Could you hold it at the 240 ending temp for a while?. I just finished a batch, according to his double stage instructions. I halved the sugar and water amounts, and used citric acid, instead of dap. Sure tastes nice, but is more runny, and not as dark as my other batches, though I held them at 240 for one hour, and two hours for the two batches. I'm keen to brew with this batch though, it was much quicker and easier to make !

 

[AndrewQLD]

Thats not quite right. Depending on what you are trying to achieve flavour wise you will end up with different flavours. And if you are shooting for a dark candi syrup, then you will end up with something that leaves a nasty aftertaste in your beer if you go too far over. If you get it back quick enough I guess you will be ok.

I'm pretty sure that's what I said
Also the OP is about making invert sugar syrup for English style ales not Belgian Candi sugar, two different things although the processes are similar, the PDF you posted is great(thanks for that) and I am curious to learn why Diamonium Phosphate (DAP) is being used, any ideas?

 

[Howlingdog]

I'm pretty sure that's what I said
Also the OP is about making invert sugar syrup for English style ales not Belgian Candi sugar, two different things although the processes are similar

I found that the "How To" article on the UK home Brew Forum on Candi syrup was very easy to follow as it has good pictures in each step showing the different colours obtained.

so id it's candi syrup your after this is worth a look. http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=16473

HD

 

[Endo]

Could you hold it at the 240 ending temp for a while?. I just finished a batch, according to his double stage instructions. I halved the sugar and water amounts, and used citric acid, instead of dap. Sure tastes nice, but is more runny, and not as dark as my other batches, though I held them at 240 for one hour, and two hours for the two batches. I'm keen to brew with this batch though, it was much quicker and easier to make !

If you have the ability to hold it accurately then I cannot see why not? I'm no expert though. It sounds like you nailed it, mine was very bitter for the dark one and I think I must not have brought it down far enough because it went quite hard.. The amber one... deliciousness but it was the consistency of maple syrup or honey.

I'm pretty sure that's what I said
Also the OP is about making invert sugar syrup for English style ales not Belgian Candi sugar, two different things although the processes are similar, the PDF you posted is great(thanks for that) and I am curious to learn why Diamonium Phosphate (DAP) is being used, any ideas?

Yeah i reread what you posted and agree I'm an idiot

If i remember the podcast correctly, you just need an Acid to invert the sugar. He used DAP, and this is the bit im trying to remember correctly, because it was used as a yeast nutrient. I don't think it was a better reason then that. I did link to the podcase above if you want to listen to the guys reasoning.

As a general rule when I make something off a recipe, I like to make it exact the first time, and then see what tweaks I want to make to it afterwards. Which is why I went DAP over a different acid in this case. Although i still have 1.5 little bags of the stuff...

 

[Batz]

This one's worth a look as well.

http://joshthebrewmaster.wordpress.com/2010/11/27/how-to-make-belgian-candi-sugar/

 

[Jace89]

I just listened to the podcast. The reasons he uses DAP was that he was finding the citric acid was starting burn at higher temps and producing astringency/bitter/tart flavors. He also found DAP would also create more interesting and complex flavors.
After listening to the podcast it's sounds like the best way to make the sugar would be to 'double cook' it. This way you enhance the flavor and increase the color of the syrup without adding and burnt flavors.
I've made DAP syrup myself and it farly simple, but this time in doing to cook it atleast twice if not three times.

 

[Bribie G]

I bought a bottle of Wells Bombardier at Dan's (the recipe that kicked this thread off again, I guess) and the caramelly overtones were awesome, like something from Willy Wonka's factory - definitely getting a candy thermometer today.

 

[mje1980]

Bombardier is the beer I've got in mind for the syrup. Just such a yummy malty beer. I think I might do a combo next time, follow the candi sugar method ( double stage ), but when I hit the final 240f end temp, I'll keep it there for an hour. The keg of "invert mild", is shrinking rapidly. At 3%, with almost 20% invert syrup, it is bloody nice. In a bigger beer, at a smaller %age, I reckon it will work nicely. I have a pale ale with my 2 nd batch, which is darker, fermenting now. Looking forward to tasting.

 

[adryargument]

Just kegged my Belgian dubbel dubbel.

Used 1KG of Amber in the recipe. (40 minutes at the darkening stage then ramped to hard break)

Beer turned out the perfect colour as per the beersmith calculations and very tasty.

 

[Batz]

I found the cheap ebay therometer not much chop. The wife had a glass candy therometer that did the job well, the digital one had trouble with the read out when it became hot.

Batz