Making Invert Sugar

[Bribie G]

Is candi syrup inverted?

 

[hsb]

The extra dark belgium-made stuff that Craftbrewer sell is just insane delicious.

I made a blonde with no spec malts in it. 100% of the colour is from the candisyrup. Wicked.

Just put together the other day, a Dubbel recipe with no spec malts. 25EBC ... all from the syrup. Pretty much a SMaSH Dubbel only Pils malt.

Expensive, and worth every penny. Liquid toffee - that signature taste (and deep red colour) of Leffe Radieuse.

I was re-reading up on Orval production last night and although they use just a little caramel malt in the initial grist, much of the colour is from the candi syrup they add to the cold wort prior to pitching, and then again for secondary fermentation (great idea) - my plan is to feed orval dregs candi syrup in secondary next time I make a Belgian.
http://www.orval.be/en/58/How-Orval-beer-is-made

Your SMASH Dubbel sounds great there, definitely worth every penny, especially when you factor in how much we all spend drinking imported Trappist beers here, still dirt cheap and even nicer than the real thing sometimes, for being fresher and for being the fruits of your own labour. One Candi Syrup order coming up, look forward to tasting how far off the real thing my Candi syrup was.
Would ultimately like to make my own that tastes as good as the imported syrup here sounds..

 

[Nick JD]

Is candi syrup inverted?

If it stays a syrup, yes. That's a characteristic of inversion - doesn't crystalise out.

The acid is a catalyst by lowing the pH in inverting sugars. But the heat will do it by itself if you're brave enough.

Using lots of water means the acid will have more time to help the heat invert the sucrose - but I'd guess frying dry sugar is violent enough to carmelise and invert.

I also add my candi to the boil - so it'll invert there as well. Then again, I don't mind sucrose in my beer. Not at all. If I'm using a caramelised sugar, it's the caramelisation I'm after - or I'd just use dextrose.

Wiki says:

Inverted sugar syrup can be easily made by adding roughly one gram of citric acid or ascorbic acid per kilogram of sugar. Cream of tartar (one gram per kilogram) or fresh lemon juice (10 milliliters per kilogram) may also be used.

The mixture is boiled for 20 minutes to get to a temperature of 114 C (237 F),[3] and will convert enough of the sucrose to effectively prevent crystallization, without giving a noticeably sour taste. Invert sugar syrup may also be produced without the use of acids or enzymes by thermal means alone: two parts granulated sucrose and one part water simmered for five to seven minutes will convert a modest portion to invert sugar.

All inverted sugar syrups are created from hydrolyzing sucrose to glucose (dextrose) and fructose by heating a sucrose solution, then relying on time alone, with the catalytic properties of an acid or enzymes used to speed the reaction. Commercially prepared acid catalysed solutions are neutralized when the desired level of inversion is reached.

All constituent sugars (sucrose, glucose and fructose) support fermentation, so invert sugar solutions may be fermented as readily as sucrose solutions.

 

[Bribie G]

Adding to the boil is something I never quite got my head around, as the trub at the end of the process is going to be luvverly sweet trub flavoured with the fruits of your hard labour when making the invert (or if using da sugaz from the supermarket, your hard labour driving to Aldi).

I've always added my sugars to the fermenter being a tightarse, and yes I do realise that this pushes up the OG as well.

Rationale for adding sugars to the boil is the added caramelisation I would guess, but is this worthwhile considering you are probably just going to chuck maybe 10% of them down t' shitter?

 

[Nick JD]

Adding to the boil is something I never quite got my head around, as the trub at the end of the process is going to be luvverly sweet trub flavoured with the fruits of your hard labour when making the invert (or if using da sugaz from the supermarket, your hard labour driving to Aldi).

I've always added my sugars to the fermenter being a tightarse, and yes I do realise that this pushes up the OG as well.

Rationale for adding sugars to the boil is the added caramelisation I would guess, but is this worthwhile considering you are probably just going to chuck maybe 10% of them down t' shitter?

I'm adding 100% of the kettle to the fermenter these days h34r:

The beers I've made with the only colour coming from the sugar's caramelisation have not lost their colour to the trub - however, when I add the dark candisyrup to the fermenter, the fermenter trub is dark - I believe I get a better amalgamisation if it's in the boil, as it seems to go straight to the bottom of the fermenter and no mix well. Dunno why. Another rationale for my addition of candy to the boil is I don't completely trust its cleanliness - especially when I have to flick the ants off the cap... And have been known to lick a dribble off the side of the bottle thread.

Damn that shit is tasty.

 

[Batz]

I had a go at making this stuff for a brew around 15 years ago, I used raw sugar and citric acid. It could not have been a very adventurous brew back in those early days, in fact I don't remember what I used it in.

Still this thread has given me some fresh inspiration, I feel a Chimay Blue in the pipe line.

Batz

 

[QldKev]

If you've got a couple planned within a month or two, the stuff keeps ok in the fridge. I've only ever made the lighter version and used blackstrap to darken it. Which reminds me, I was going to try a hit of blackstrap in a beer one day.

QldKev

 

[Mikedub]

if adding to the boil is the go, would it matter if you took the syrup up past 275F - 135C (according to the interwebs) and made rocks instead, I'm thinking easier to store

 

[wessmith]

This article makes interesting reading and confirms for me the fact that commercial candi syrup is made from a by-product of beet sugar production - with a lot more processing!

http://nateobrew.blogspot.com.au/2011/08/c...ow-to-make.html

Wes

 

[Nick JD]

I made some with raw sugar a few months back - very nice.

Gave up 3 years ago trying to copy the monk's stuff - there's some religious voodoo in it.

 

[mje1980]

I just bought a thermometer off eBay. For $8 its worth a go. Those uk ales seem to be so complex for such a simple grain bill, love to get some more yummy malty flavours in mine.

 

[tiprya]

I made some from raw sugar that I added to an English IPA

MO plus about 5% dark invert, and it created great caramelly flavours that I havn't gotten from crystal.

I think for british beers (at least traditional recipes) it is a good improvement.

 

[Mikedub]

the dark strong I'm planning calls for 1.5kg syrup, I'm sure the retail version is very good but at $12 per 500ml I reckon I'll enjoying chancing my hand at making it myself,

quote from Brew Like a Monk
"Start with the idea that the spirit of Belgium is to make great beer with what we have, Then it is almost anti-spirit to spend xxx on (pre-made) candi sugar. The Belgians would have asked, what is the cheapest sugar I have, and that was local sugar"

 

[Nick JD]

quote from Brew Like a Monk
"Start with the idea that the spirit of Belgium is to make great beer with what we have, Then it is almost anti-spirit to spend xxx on (pre-made) candi sugar. The Belgians would have asked, what is the cheapest sugar I have, and that was local sugar"

Quote from me:

You can't make that shit at home.

 

[drew9242]

I made invert sugar at home, due to the fact i cant just go down to the shop and pick some up. So i just made my own. Was very easy apart from the constant time you had to sit there watching it. It was for my Case swap beer and i think some people seem to like it so i assume it worked. Just give it a go i reckon.

 

[Nick JD]

I need to clarify. I'm not saying you can't make a nice candy syrup at home or simply invert some sucrose (not sure why you'd bother when dextrose is so cheap and sucrose inverts in the boil) I'm saying that I'd love to hear someone say: here's how the monks do it.

I've heard they use beet sugar products (not totally actual beet sugar - but some kinda "mollases" from production) and tricky acids and funky steps - but I haven't been able to find an actual recipe for the real thing.

Two things I've resigned myself not being able to do in brewing: make candy syrup taste like belgian stuff and get that commercial German Pilsner character.

 

[QldKev]

if adding to the boil is the go, would it matter if you took the syrup up past 275F - 135C (according to the interwebs) and made rocks instead, I'm thinking easier to store

But the taste of the product would be changed, if you want that more full on sour taste it would be ok. I want that sweet candied flavor in mine.

I need to clarify. I'm not saying you can't make a nice candy syrup at home or simply invert some sucrose (not sure why you'd bother when dextrose is so cheap and sucrose inverts in the boil) I'm saying that I'd love to hear someone say: here's how the monks do it.

I've heard they use beet sugar products (not totally actual beet sugar - but some kinda "mollases" from production) and tricky acids and funky steps - but I haven't been able to find an actual recipe for the real thing.

Two things I've resigned myself not being able to do in brewing: make candy syrup taste like belgian stuff and get that commercial German Pilsner character.

Does it really invert that well in the boil that well. We boil at just over 100c, maybe 102c. To invert the sugar don't we need 115c'ish?


I've followed Andrew's blog? and found the end result tasted nothing like normal sugar. It was way more sweeter and stayed through though to the final beer, along with that caramely goodness


Maybe I should head down the road and pick up some Mol A and also some Mol B and try to invert it. Shit that will be sweet.

QldKev

 

[Batz]

I just bought a thermometer off eBay. For $8 its worth a go. Those uk ales seem to be so complex for such a simple grain bill, love to get some more yummy malty flavours in mine.

Me too, I'm going to get right into this!

Quote from me:

You can't make that shit at home.

You can't tell a home brewer that Nick....that's why we are home brewers.

Perhaps you should have said "I can't make that shit at home" Nick.

Batz

 

[Nick JD]

Perhaps you should have said "I can't make that shit at home" Nick.

Perhaps I should have said: I challenge anyone to make a dark candy syrup that tastes the same as the Belgian stuff Craftbrewer sell.

When you do ... give me the recipe.

I can tell you now that you can't make it with some acid, sucrose and water.

 

[Mikedub]

no doubt a portion of mine will end up on some ice cream on the way to the kettle,