Low Efficiency Woes... Just Venting Really

[Sammus]

MHB is my local. He's pretty cluey and gets a lot of praise for his grain crushing, so I'm not really worried about that side of it.

I underlet, and give a stir at the start, never get any doughballs.

5kg of grain at the ratio given in the OP.
13L of 75.5C to hit 67C. Rest for 60min.
7L at near boiling to hit 75C, rest for 10min (mashout, or something)
recirc/Drain
Batch sparge with 19L at 79C (hit 76C in the tun). Stir and rest for 10min then recirc/drain again.
boil for 90min.
11g northern brewer for 60min of said boil.

overestimated my boiloff and got a few extra litres, but not enough to make up for the ridiculously low OG.

I think that point about undermodified german malts may have something to do with it. I always use a significant proportion of Weyermann.

And just to finish off my brewing info:
1L 3068 starter pitched at 20C at high krausen. Had a small krausen in the ferm within an hour. Had a cold night and the temp of the fermenter still managed to climb to 24 sitting in my insulated tub covered in ice. damn super active yeast. Will be finished in another day probably, hardley any sugar to get through.

Oh well, it probably won't be the best beer I've ever brewed. Live and learn though huh.

 

[Doogiechap]

MHB is my local. He's pretty cluey and gets a lot of praise for his grain crushing, so I'm not really worried about that side of it.

I underlet, and give a stir at the start, never get any doughballs.

13L of 75.5C to hit 67C. Rest for 60min.
7L at near boiling to hit 75C, rest for 10min (mashout, or something)
recirc/Drain
Batch sparge with 19L at 79C (hit 76C in the tun). Stir and rest for 10min then recirc/drain again.
boil for 90min.

overestimated my boiloff and got a few extra litres, but not enough to make up for the ridiculously low OG.

I think that point about undermodified german malts may have something to do with it. I always use a significant proportion of Weyermann.

Another thought, are your grain bills measured out my Mark or do you measure them ? Leading question, how accurate are your scales ? Check with the old liter of water =1Kg for a reference.
The plot gets more mysterious indeed.

 

[razz]

If you check the Weyermann website you will find that their malt is fully modified.

 

[Sammus]

Another thought, are your grain bills measured out my Mark or do you measure them ? Leading question, how accurate are your scales ? Check with the old liter of water =1Kg for a reference.
The plot gets more mysterious indeed.

Measured by Mark, even saw him go over a bit. He uses industrial postal scale looking things. I think they even have a calibration plaque thing on them.

The plot's mystery has been around for years now... it's starting to wear thin. Some days I feel like I'll just give up brewing, or go back to kits. Other days I reckon the entire forum is BSing about their efficiency figures :lol:

 

[Sammus]

If you check the Weyermann website you will find that their malt is fully modified.

Hrm. Maybe I should stir more or something. Maybe my glass tube type lab thermometer lost its accuracy over time or something. Maybe I'm just cursed?

Anyone want to come and brew on my equipment is welcome. See if its me or my gear :lol:

Only thing I havent tried is the old (new?) floating mash, something I'll have to give a go next time.

 

[buttersd70]

I can't spot anything at all wrong from what you're doing. It all looks pretty straight forward to me. Confusing, indeed....got me stumped mate, sorry.

Maybe take beef up on his offer, and swap gears for a brew.

 

[mika]

I usually only achieve 60% efficiency when using Australian, British or German malts. If I crush finer I get stuck sparges. So while my efficiency sux (relatively), the beer tastes alright, it's consistent (pretty much always hit my OG) so I stress less and move on with life. I've been thinking about fly sparging, but not sure I want to go thru extra hassle for that little bit less grain.

 

[peas_and_corn]

Maybe you should invite some AG brewers over to check out what you're doing, they could offer you some advice

 

[Stuster]

Stirring can make a difference in my experience. Whenever I'm lazy about doing it then my efficiency does go down though not enough to account for the rate you're getting. Do you stir after you add in the mash in water? I'd say next time experiment with stirring more at mash in, mash out and when you add the sparge water. No real need to wait that ten minutes after adding the sparge water. Just recirculate and drain.

Another thought, what water do you use?

 

[Ronin]

I think that point about undermodified german malts may have something to do with it. I always use a significant proportion of Weyermann.

My base lager recipe is 95% pils, 4% munich and 1% melanoidin, all german. I've made the recipe (slightly modified each time) 3 times now and averaged about 78% efficiency into the fermenter, 85% out of the mash. I do a protein rest as part of my normal mash, maybe try that?

edit: and just reading some more of the posts, I stir pretty much constantly during the protein rest (10 min) and for the first 5 minutes of the sacchrification rest.

 

[Sammus]

Cheers for all the replies guys.

I'm pretty sure illawarra water is quite high pH (7.5-8.0 according to the water report) and considering this was all super pale malt I'm guessing that was the source of this one disheartening result.

If it goes back to the 60s using darker malts (I usually make dark beers) or adjusting my pH properly I'll be happy.

Cheers for all the responses, I mustve posted a whinging thread similar to this a number of times before, but never get this kind of response

And beef, if my problems dont sort themselves out soon, I may well take you up on that offer

 

[Fourstar]

The size of the wheat kernel is much smaller than a barley kernel. If the grain was run thru the mill at one setting, the wheat will certainly have taken less damage than the Pils. Who's your LHBS?

Very good point PM. if you are only crushing say 1/2-3/4 of your wheat grains, this could account for the big drop.

 

[Fourstar]

If you check the Weyermann website you will find that their malt is fully modified.

Ive done abit of soul searching Razz, i cant seem to pinpoint any specs of their malt.

 

[razz]

http://www.weyermann.de/eng/produkte.asp?i...7&sprache=2
Some base malt listed as "well modified" My mistake, I've only ever done mashs that are in the sacc rest range and never had any probs with their malts.

 

[SJW]

Hows ya crush? I find with the false bottom in the mush tun I can run the grain through the mill twice for a very very fine grind and still dont get stuck sparges. It may not be where your problem is but its one way of eliminating the crush from the equation.

Steve

 

[PostModern]

Cheers for all the replies guys.

I'm pretty sure illawarra water is quite high pH (7.5-8.0 according to the water report) and considering this was all super pale malt I'm guessing that was the source of this one disheartening result.

If it goes back to the 60s using darker malts (I usually make dark beers) or adjusting my pH properly I'll be happy.

Cheers for all the responses, I mustve posted a whinging thread similar to this a number of times before, but never get this kind of response

And beef, if my problems dont sort themselves out soon, I may well take you up on that offer

You're confusing me. MHB is your LHBS but you brew in Mt Keira? I agree with you, I can't fault Mark's work.

If you have the patience to go at it again, try running off slowly and fly-sparging to see if that makes any difference. I batch sparged once or twice when I started, to "save time" but gave up when I saw that running off gently gave me much stronger wort and didn't take much more time at all. In fact, by putting heat to the kettle as soon as the wort covers the whole base, I can finish running off as the kettle comes to the boil, about the same time as a batch sparger can fill, recirculate, drain, refill, stir, wait, recirculate, drain....

Another thought. Is it only your wheat beers going so bad? Not just thinking about crush, but run-off. If the mash gets thick and sticky, you might have some channelling which your batch sparging also won't help.

 

[Sammus]

You're confusing me. MHB is your LHBS but you brew in Mt Keira? I agree with you, I can't fault Mark's work.

If you have the patience to go at it again, try running off slowly and fly-sparging to see if that makes any difference. I batch sparged once or twice when I started, to "save time" but gave up when I saw that running off gently gave me much stronger wort and didn't take much more time at all. In fact, by putting heat to the kettle as soon as the wort covers the whole base, I can finish running off as the kettle comes to the boil, about the same time as a batch sparger can fill, recirculate, drain, refill, stir, wait, recirculate, drain....

Another thought. Is it only your wheat beers going so bad? Not just thinking about crush, but run-off. If the mash gets thick and sticky, you might have some channelling which your batch sparging also won't help.

Haha yes, you got it right. I live in Mt Keira (renting, student at Wollongong Uni) but home base, so to speak, is in Newcastle. I still travel back every weekend for a number of reasons.

I tried flying once and it didn't go to well, more of me screwing things up than it not actually working well. I think it's definitely time to revisit since I've got another year or so experience.

And nah it's not just wheat beers, all of em. Next time I'm going to adjust the pH and and revisit fly sparging. Fingers crossed.

 

[Swinging Beef]

And beef, if my problems dont sort themselves out soon, I may well take you up on that offer

I brew during the week, mostly, so if you get a day off regular days off, I can line one up with you.
We could try getting a matching grain bill, and try to nut out where the problem is.
PM me if you want to go this way.
The rest of March is wheat beers, and April will be all English beers. :icon_cheers: