Longer Boils - Any Problem

[manticle]

Just wondering if I do a 90 minute boil with a smaller amount of hops added at the beginning, if I can achieve the desired level of bitterness.

Will this effect my wort in any other negative way?

At $8 for 100g and needing to use up to 70g of one type, 50 of another etc etc I'd like to start reducing the costs. I just do 60 mins because that's what my recipe generating spreadsheet allows.

 

[THBF Wez]

The difference in bitterness extraction between a 60 & 90 min boil is very small.

A quick check in Beersmith shows:

50g 6%aa boiled for 60 mins = 21.6 IBU
50g 6%aa boiled for 90 mins = 23.1 IBU

So using this example (assuming 21.6 is the target IBU) to get 21.6 from a 901 min boil you would be using 46.5g rather than 50g

Not a great saving

I used Tinseth in BeerSmith

 

[manticle]

Bugger.

Maybe I need to start growing my own.

 

[Pollux]

If you want to save cash, grab some nelson sauvin or galaxy to use for your bittering, the higher AA% will help..

Or go buy some commercial beer, then you will be reminded how much brewing is saving you..

 

[seemax]

Two options..

Buy in bulk, 0.5 or 1.0kg prices are significantly cheaper.

Use high AA hops for the bulk of your IBU, then small amounts for aroma.

 

[manticle]

Forgive me if this is stupid but the only thing you get from hops @60 mins is bittering?

There's no point putting in different varieties before say 30 mins?

If that's the case, your suggestion is a good one.

I need no reminder of how much I'm saving - if I could afford it I'd be drinking leffe and Duvel every day.

It's just every time I go to the brew shop I end up leaving with far less cash than I'd intended. Hops are one of the main culprits.

 

[Tony M]

And dont forget the extra gas. Mind you if you do a little research on this forum, you'll end up doing 90 min. boils anyway.

 

[clean brewer]

It's just every time I go to the brew shop I end up leaving with far less cash than I'd intended. Hops are one of the main culprits.

Use ya Credit Card then mate... I just did the Average cost of my first 10 AG brews and it worked out to be about $28 a batch, not bad for 19ltrs or 2 and a bit cartons..

Ross's N.S Summer Ale coming out the best priced at about $23? and thats with 90gr Hops...

:icon_cheers: CB

 

[jayandcath]

The biggest help I could find about this issue was from Jamil, and he prefers longer boils because they give the beer better flavor and colour. BUT, and he says you don't have to boil the **** out of the wort, just have it turning over and steam coming off.
I went to 90min boils and I can't say I have even noticed any changes in gas consumption, if it has increased I'm not worried about it.

Jay

 

[manticle]

Use ya Credit Card then mate...

I don't have one for that very reason. If I did, I've have bought myself a small brewery, brought Tom Waits out to Aus and seen Manchester United twice.

Then the bank would repossess Tom Waits and kick me out of Old Trafford with only the shoes I'm wearing and a saucepan lid.

 

[HoppingMad]

If you want to save $$$ on hops might be time to brew a few styles that use less of them - like aussie ales, wheats and stouts. There's plenty of recipes about that only need around 28g for a 19L batch. If you're making APAs and IPAs you will chew through the hops and your limited funds. I've noticed on Recipe DB here there is a lot of stuff geared to heavy hop use but that's not to say you have to go that way.

Another option is to go for a spiced or fruit beer option which would mean less hop utilisation. Info on that can be found in Sam Caglione's Extreme Brewing - he lists quantities of the herbs to be added to boils and for how long in one section. I'm itching to get my hands on a copy but funds don't allow currently.

Belgians are another option - you could lightly hop say a Wit beer and boost with more coriander and orange peel instead to get your flavour.

Have heard on Basic Brewing Radio (podcast) about reusing hops (I think this would be flowers or hop bags? Was a while ago) but I would be worried about infection doing that - mind you there are some crazy yanks out there it seems that are 'washing their hops' and squeezing the last bit of flavour out of them it seems.

Hopper.

 

[manticle]

Have heard on Basic Brewing Radio (podcast) about reusing hops (I think this would be flowers or hop bags? Was a while ago) but I would be worried about infection doing that - mind you there are some crazy yanks out there it seems that are 'washing their hops' and squeezing the last bit of flavour out of them it seems.

Hopper.

I can't imagine reusing hops is going to get you much and it must be impossible to calculate. I worked with a chef who tried to make a second beef stock using the same bones but the amount you can get is finite. He was a twit.

The beer I have planned is a German Pilsner. I only need to hit between 30 and 40 IBU but beer recipator.org suggests I still need a whack of the hops I have to hit 33.

Here is the recipe at the moment:





German Pilsner

Type: Partial mash

Size: 23 liters

Color: 6 HCU (~5 SRM)

Bitterness: 33 IBU

OG: 1.059
FG: 1.010

Alcohol: 6.3% v/v (4.9% w/w)

Mash: 70% efficiency

Boil: 60 minutes
SG 1.180
Vol: 7.5 liters

Grain:
3kg German Pilsner


Extracts:
1kg Light dry malt extract
1kg Light malt extract

Hops:
30g Hallertauer (4.7% AA, 60 min.)
30g Northern Brewer (6.2% AA, 60 min.)
30g Sterling (6.2% AA, 60 min.)
20g Hallertauer (4.7% AA, 45 min.)
20g Northern Brewer (6.2% AA, 45 min.)
20g Sterling (6.2% AA, 45 min.)
10g Hallertauer (4.7% AA, 15 min.)
10g Northern Brewer (6.2% AA, 15 min.)
10g Sterling (6.2% AA, 15 min.)
10g Sterling (aroma)

​

.​

Brew cellar Lager yeast and nutrient

 

[Snow]

mate if you're justt trying to reduce your costs through reduction in bittering hops then you're in the wrong game. try growing your own mushrooms.

 

[Bribie G]

According to my new bible "Brew your own British Real Ale" hops are not fully isomerised until 90 minutes. Many home brewers boil only for 60 minutes to save power but don't get the best out of their hops.

The author, Dennis Wheeler is a beer god on the UK forums and gets his info from the breweries.

I go with the strength and have started to boil for 90 and hop for 90. My last two 90 brews were an Aussie Old with 30g POR 90 mins and nothing else. Hops are sensational. The other was my Solly Cerveza, with a kilo of rice as an adjunct and 20g Chinook 90 mins, and has turned out twice as hoppy as Corona. Well, anything is twice as hoppy as Corona :lol:

60 minute boil is a lame HB thing, in fact many breweries such as Pilsner Urquell boil for two hours. IMHO, hop for bittering for 90. Oh and mash for at least 90 as well

 

[manticle]

mate if you're justt trying to reduce your costs through reduction in bittering hops then you're in the wrong game. try growing your own mushrooms.

Will growing mushrooms make me beer?

 

[Guest Lurker]

60 minute boil is a lame HB thing, in fact many breweries such as Pilsner Urquell boil for two hours. IMHO, hop for bittering for 90. Oh and mash for at least 90 as well

Rubbish. Mash for 45 to 60, boil for 90, hop for 60.

 

[bowie in space]

"Tom Waits' and Manticles' Mushroom Farm"

kinda got a nice ring to it.

Bowie

 

[pint of lager]

You are brewing a Pilsner. Good Pilsners are hopped with low alpha noble hops from start to finish, with no shortcuts for high alpha additions for bittering. The usual misconception is that bittering hops provide no flavour contribution, but any good lager brewer will tell you that the bittering hop forms part of the flavour profile.

I have used 3% AA rated hops from start to finish in a 40IBU beer and the flavour is stunning. This is with a 45 litre batch size. The hop trub left in the kettle was huge.

You will not be brewing Pilsners for every brew. Other beer styles can have higher alpha hops for bittering and won't cost you as much for the hop component. A good traditional Pilsner is usually brewed with only European Saaz hops.

You can try using low flavoured high alpha hops for bittering, but the flavour will not be as good. Or you can use some of the NZ hops, but once again, the flavour is different.

Boil time is usually a minimum of 90 minutes, with 60 minutes for the hop flavour addition.

 

[manticle]

The closest to saaz I have are the sterling which are supposedly similar but with higher AA.

Would you suggest making a single hop beer using all sterling?

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Just use a neutral high alpha hop with a low co-humulone % (you can look it up) Magnum is nice one.

Yeah - a "traditional" Czech pilsner is made with all saaz hops. But that doesn't mean you cant make a bloody great pilsner with different hops. Do make sure that you put some of your noble hop of choice in at every stage so the character is distributed across the whole flavour and aroma profile. And certainly use the noble hop only later on in the boil.

I would pick magnum as the high alpha/ Let it take care of teh lions share of the IBUs, and then use saaz or hallertau or tettneang or sterling or whatever for the rest.

90min boil will suck out a few more IBUs - wont hurt if the small increase means enough to you - But from a purely economic standpoint, I think the extra gas consumption will eat up any savings in hops, or at least a chunk of it.