Largering How To

[Bigfella]

I'm fermenting a Oktoberfest at the moment and it is my first lager I'm using a wyeast Bavarian lager 2206 yeast

After reading 2 books I have one being Pamers and they other being Charlie Papazian I'm still not 100% sure on the largering process I would be interested in other peoples opinions in what they think is a good way to larger a beer. Thanks guys

 

[Jovial_Monk]

Ferment at 8-10C, when nearly finished pulkl fermenter out of fridge and let it warm up (diacetyl rest)

Rack into a cube and put in a nice cold fridge, 0C would be perfect, after a month you can raise the temp a bit, 3C or so.

How long to lager? Depends, on strength (bigger the beer the longer the lager) and whether you can get it down to .5C for the first month, if not lager for 5-6 months. My 10% doppelbock was racked mid-Jan, will be bottled Jun-Jul

Jovial Monk

 

[wee stu]

I'm fermenting a Oktoberfest at the moment and it is my first lager I'm using a wyeast Bavarian lager 2206 yeast

Spookily enough bigfella I am doing exactly the same thing at the moment, and will be very interested in the responses to this thread.

This is what I plan to do. The beer is currently fermenting s-l-o-w-l-y in my brew fridge at 10C. I plan to let it ferment out for 2 to 3 weeks. I've had mixed feedback on the benefits of the diacetyl rest, but think I will bring it back to room temp before racking to a jerry can.

I have another fridge for cold conditioning which keeps a temp of between 0 & 2C. And I'll lager for 2 to 3 months. OG was 1042, so this one is not going to be huge.

Was also planning to bring it up to room temp before bulk priming and bottling, but still taking notice on that.

 

[AndrewQLD]

Wee Stu and Bigfella,

I have been brewing lagers for a couple of years now and I still ask myself the same questions you have just posted.

Currently I ferment at 10-12c then at end of fermentation raise to 16c over 3 days for diacetyl rest, then rack to another fermenter and lager @ the temp recommended by the liquid yeast manufacturer IE: whitelabs recommend their Czech Budejonice yeast be lagered at 6c and the time dependant on OG of beer.

I now find myself asking, would it be better to lager the beer in the keg that it is to be served from and if so should it be gassed before or after the lagering period. I haven't done this yet.

The reason I ask this is that I have noticed no matter how long you lager your beer, when you keg and gas, the flavor is fine but if the beer is left for a month or two in the keg the flavor becomes really good, a big improvement on when it was first kegged. And this is after lagering in the fermenter for 3 months.

I wonder if the beer gas has some kind of maturing affect that you just don't get when you lager normally.

sorry for hijacking the thread, but this really interests me.

Regards
Andrew

 

[Bigfella]

I'm glad you asked that was my next question.

 

[wee stu]

I don't keg. (If I get another fridge for that the wife will kill me!).
So my stoopid question is: How does bottle age/conditioning affect a lager?

 

[Jovial_Monk]

You will find the first month at around 0C wil reduce the lagering time.

Lager in the keg means lotsa yeast in the first 2-3 glasses. why not put in the keg & gas up after the month at low temps

Jovial Monk

 

[AndrewQLD]

Well, sure JM, but that would be the standard lagering method, what I was wondering is, cc for a week to drop the yeast then lager gassed in the keg for a month, there would still be some active yeast in the keg for the conditioning effect but you would also gain the benefits of aging while gassed, or would you???

 

[AndrewQLD]

I have decided to try and answer this thread myself. I have just brewed 43 lt of my mash paddle ale, but using the Budejovice yeast (the first batch for the comp has been drunk already Amazing how good a beer can taste made from the bare essentials ).

I have split the batch after 10 days @12c and 2 days @ 16c for diacetyl. They are both in the fridge @ 6c, one I will lager as is for 1 mth then keg and gas and leave for one week. The other I will CC in the fermenter for one week and then keg and gas, and lager for one month.

So in five weeks time I should be able to report back with the results of which method turned out best.

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

I have decided to try and answer this thread myself. I have just brewed 43 lt of my mash paddle ale, but using the Budejovice yeast (the first batch for the comp has been drunk already Amazing how good a beer can taste made from the bare essentials ).

I have split the batch after 10 days @12c and 2 days @ 16c for diacetyl. They are both in the fridge @ 6c, one I will lager as is for 1 mth then keg and gas and leave for one week. The other I will CC in the fermenter for one week and then keg and gas, and lager for one month.

So in five weeks time I should be able to report back with the results of which method turned out best.

Are you entering the comp. Andrew?

TDA

 

[AndrewQLD]

You bet ya TDA, this was the simplest brew I have ever made (ingredient wise) and it's probably one of the easiest drinking too. It may not be a winner but my wife and mates sucked this done in record time, so I think I have a new house ale.

What about you TDA did you enter too???

 

[Gout]

Andrew, thanks for testing the gassed V the CC test. I have also wondered for so long whats best

be sure to let us all know the results

Ben

and even let us know how to brew this A1 ale of yours

 

[sosman]

The question of cold conditioning in the keg comes up from time to time on rec.crafts.brewing. The consensus seems to be that kegging and gassing are fine, fold only secondary to drop out more yeast.

 

[SJW]

This may be a dumb question but can you cold condition in the bottle? ie, ferment for a couple of weeks then rack for a bit and instead of CCing for 2 to 6 weeks and risk not having enough yeast left for carbonation, why not just bottle then CC?

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

You bet ya TDA, this was the simplest brew I have ever made (ingredient wise) and it's probably one of the easiest drinking too. It may not be a winner but my wife and mates sucked this done in record time, so I think I have a new house ale.

What about you TDA did you enter too???

Yeah, i will have brewed my entry. It must be 5 weeks old now but have yet to try it.
The reason I asked Andrew is that I didn't think the Budejovice yeast was appropriate for the competition guidelines, unless it is a European Ale yeast.
Anyway, good luck with your entry.

C&B
TDA

 

[Jethro]

This may be a dumb question but can you cold condition in the bottle? ie, ferment for a couple of weeks then rack for a bit and instead of CCing for 2 to 6 weeks and risk not having enough yeast left for carbonation, why not just bottle then CC?

Last winter I brewed about 6 lagers (bulk primed and bottled after the secondary fermenter) I then lagered for a month at 0 Deg C. before warming to carbonate.
( I even froze a batch of Baverian Dunkel accidently) all bottlles carbonated very well and were quite drinkable I must add. I only used saflager yeast thou maybe other lager yeasts behave differenly

 

[AndrewQLD]

No worries TDA,

The mash paddle comp used WLP005 British Ale, I used the lager yeast in the next batch to see what the difference would be.

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

That's interesting Andrew. Can you post the differences you have found using the two yeasts? Just curious.
Also, I want to try the Budejovice yeast when I begin brewing Pilseners later in the year.

C&B
TDA

 

[Jase]

I have decided to try and answer this thread myself. I have just brewed 43 lt of my mash paddle ale, but using the Budejovice yeast (the first batch for the comp has been drunk already Amazing how good a beer can taste made from the bare essentials ).

I have split the batch after 10 days @12c and 2 days @ 16c for diacetyl. They are both in the fridge @ 6c, one I will lager as is for 1 mth then keg and gas and leave for one week. The other I will CC in the fermenter for one week and then keg and gas, and lager for one month.

So in five weeks time I should be able to report back with the results of which method turned out best.

Hi Andrew,

How do your little experiment go? Any results?

Cheers,
Jase

 

[AndrewQLD]

Hi Jase,

Yes I have the results but I never got around to posting them as I forget :blink: .

The beer I cced in the fermenter for one week and then kegged and gassed and lagered for one month I will refer to as : beer 1

The beer I lagered for one month then kegged and gassed and conditioned for one week I will refer to as :beer 2

Beer 1 was a slightly more hoppy beer with more hop bitterness and very little aroma. Bubbles were very small and plentiful, malt flavour and aroma was subdued.

Beer 2 had less obvious hop characteristics and the hops seemed to be more apparent in the aroma and flavour areas, bitterness was definately less apparent.
Malt flavour and aroma was much more pronounced. Bubbles where larger and not as well formed.

To me beer 2 was more to style however, it could have used more time under gas to enhance bubble formation. It was definately a smoother more rounded beer