Lager Starter Temps

[Hopsta]

I've got some WLP830 German lager yeast that i harvested a few months back, i need to build up a starter with enough viable yeast to pitch to a 5 gallon batch. What are the best temps to do this at? should i have the starter at lager temps ~10c or will the yeast multiply faster at room temp ~23?
What is the best way to build up a healthy viable lager yeast?

 

[sluggerdog]

I've heard of others doing the starters at the lager temps but I just do them at room temp and have noticed no problem with that.

ALSO before I pitch I tip off most of the liquid and only pitch the starter trub..

I'd say the off flavours created in the starter would be in the top liquid and not the trub that I pitch.

 

[peas_and_corn]

I was advised by my HBS to do the starter at ale temps (20/21C), pitch at that temp, which encourages a bit of initial very quick activity in the wort giving the layer of CO2 that protects the beer from infection, then bring the temp down to lager temps

 

[mongo]

Hi Hopsta,

There seems to be two schools of thought on pitching lager yeast. This is exemplified by the WhiteLabs site, which this quote is taken from:

What temperature should I pitch a lager yeast?

There are two different methods of pitching lagers. Brewers use each method with success, but every brewer has their preference. The easiest method is (A).
A) Start the yeast warm and lower to 50-55F after the start of fermentation. The yeast should be pitched at 70 to 75 degrees Fahrenheit. Once you see active fermentation, bring the temperature of the wort down 10 degrees per 12 hours until the desired fermentation temperature has been achieved. This method works well without forming high amounts of esters because most esters are produced after the first 12 hours.
B) Pitch the yeast at the desired fermentation temperature (48-55 Degrees F). Lager yeast ferment well at this temperature, but they grow very slowly. If you are using this method, understand that you may not see signs of activity for 48-72 hours. If starting the fermentation cold, we recommend you make a 1-2 liter starter per 5 gallons, or if a commercial brewery, a starter 10% of the batch size.

When I posted a similar question on another forum somewhere, someone that knew Chris White answered. He reckoned that Chris' preference is to pitch at warmer temps.

Having said that, I have only brewed one lager. I opted for the large starter and pitching it cold. It took ages to start fermenting, but the end result was fantastic. It was probably the best beer I have ever brewed. Still - I probably won't pitch at cold temps next time. I figure that if White labs endorse warm pitching temps, it's good enough for me!

 

[BoilerBoy]

Another option is tipping out most of the starter wort and then giving it 1L of the newly prepared wort, keep it at slightly above the desired ferment temp and then when it reaches high activity (usually 2-4 hrs) pitch.

It usually takes off very rapidly as the yeast is at high activity, near the desired temp and already conditioned to the wort.

I often do this with lagers when the wort is still to warm to pitch and while im waiting for the temp to drop I'll do the above with the starter.
My only worry about pitching lager yeast at ale temps and then dropping it down is the speed at which the temp drops.

I have read and heard it said that you need to do this within 24 hrs of pitching.

I dont know what others think about this, but from my own observation alot of fermentation can take place in 1day and temps outside the "Lager Zone" tend to produce the kind of esters which are out of character for a lager.

I reckon with a decent size starter, with yeast numbers up, its best to pitch near fermentation temp.

Cheers
BB

I'd be interested in the comments of what others have found.

 

[mongo]

excuse the rogue smiley in my quote above. That is actually the letter "B", followed by a bracket (as in, the smiley indicates the start of method "B")

 

[Zwickel]

Hi folks,

I follow the suggestions of John Palmer, quoted in mongos post.

The biggest Problem of most homebrewers is mostly, they have too less yeast for pitching at fermentation temperature.
To do so, we reckon approximately 1% of the total batchsize of viscous yeast.
viscous yeast means, very stiff.
I f you dont have that amount of yeast, you may pitch on higher temp, but be aware, the yeast will produce a lot of ester, diacetyl an another unwanted stuff.
Anyway, in this case, the wort should be very well aerated so the yeast can grow first before starting fermentation.

Therefore J.Palmer recommend a diacetyl-rest at the end of fermentation.

I know, its very hard in Australia to maintain fermentation-tempratures below 10-12C.
But, if you really want to produce a good Lager or Pils, you have to.

Cheers

 

[Hopsta]

Thanks for your input everyone, i think i'll go with the Chris White endorsed method seems easy and effective.

Cheers,
Hopsta

 

[cubbie]

This is discussed with Chris White on the Brewing Network

Show 01-22-06

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/archive.php

 

[Jazzafish]

Check out the archive of this on the brewing network, will explain it better than I can!

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/archive/d...ive01-22-06.mp3

 

[cubbie]

You didn't like my link?