Kit Colour

[ibast]

OK to help the fiddlers (i.e. me) out there I thought it would be a good idea to rank some of the common kit malt colours.

I'll start, ranking lightese to darkest:

Coopers Canadian Blond

Coopers Lager

Coopers Bitter

Coopers Stout.

Now you guys fill in the blanks where you are confident.

 

[EK]

This post (and the entire thread) will be help. Note that it also contains the IBUs.

Kit IBU Levels, Post 13

Other posts in the thread list other kits.

EK

EDIT: You could always contact Coopers if you want.

 

[Canumbler]

The coopers website lists EBC and IBU's for all of their kits.

Now if only they gave ppg...

 

[drsmurto]

I have an excel spreadsheet of varying kits and their colour/IBU.

Its attached but has a few gaps as i dont do kits no more. Missing the newer Coopers kits from memory so no doubt you can update it form the Coopers site as mentioned.

Cheers
DrSmurto

View attachment 17951

 

[ibast]

Thanks guys. Good lists. I was actually interested for a basis for extract type brews. The "pale" LME you get is not always that pale.

 

[Hefty]

This post (and the entire thread) will be help. Note that it also contains the IBUs.

Kit IBU Levels, Post 13

Other posts in the thread list other kits.

EK

EDIT: You could always contact Coopers if you want.

When the Coopers site lists its IBU's they are in the hundreds (eg canadian blonde is 420IBU). Is this for the can by itself or for when made up to 23L? Or are they using a different scale? The numbers just don't seem right. They're higher than I've found anywhere else.
Can someone please explain it to me in small words. I'm sure there's a simple explanation but I just seem to be overlooking it.

Jono.

 

[Hefty]

Please disregard my last post. The very next thing I did after submitting it was to follow the link earlier in the thread where it explains that the number is for the can by itself.
Don't mind me

Jono.

 

[drsmurto]

The spreadsheet has both the IBU of the tin and then what it will be watered down to 23L (the standard kit brew size). Same goes for colour.

So the tin has IBUs in the 100s whilst the normal 23L size ranges from mid teens up to high 30s for the stouts etc.

 

[maltedhopalong]

Hi Guys,

I'm building an excel spreadsheet similar to the one posted by Dr Smurto.

It's going to have all the kits' colour and bitterness details but more than that, it's going to have the colour and bitterness levels of commercial beers too and where possible, additional notes such as particular types of malt or hops used etc. It's also got colour charts, bitterness charts, conversions etc. Once I've got it to a useable level I'll post it for all to use. It should be really helpful in providing some positive direction for future brews.

Obviously the biggest problem at the moment, though, is finding the details of the commercial brews. Does anyone know of links to websites/databases that might have this info? If you have any specific beers that you know of, please post them too.

 

[maltedhopalong]

Also guys, I can't find the Colour or Bitterness numbers for Beermakers or Brewcraft cans.

If anyone knows who owns the companies or where I may find the info, please let me know.

 

[ibast]

Hi Guys,

I'm building an excel spreadsheet similar to the one posted by Dr Smurto.

It's going to have all the kits' colour and bitterness details but more than that, it's going to have the colour and bitterness levels of commercial beers too and where possible, additional notes such as particular types of malt or hops used etc. It's also got colour charts, bitterness charts, conversions etc. Once I've got it to a useable level I'll post it for all to use. It should be really helpful in providing some positive direction for future brews.

sounds like a top idea

 

[maltedhopalong]

Thanks for the bump ibast.

I'm going to post what I did yesterday so you guys can get an idea of what I'm trying to do. It's a little underdone at the moment so please bear that in mind.

Thanks to Dr Smurto for posting his list earlier. I've used most of your numbers for the ones you already had. I've also added all of the muntons kits (as per their website).

You'll note that when it comes to colour, plenty of numbers are a bit out of whack. Please stick with them as I've tried to apply the same rules to all of the kits so as to maintain some continuity. The equivalent EBC of the finished product might be a half a point off the mark, but relative to the other kits it should be OK.
The reason is that when it comes to colour, EBC is not a different measurement of the same thing as SRM or Lovibond. The two measurements measure different things, so in fact there's no "conversion" factor for them at all. I've provided a regression analysis to show how to approximate the two. I've been webhunting and the fact is there are a lot of formulas being offered that are just plain wrong. Anything where you have to add or subtract a fixed number from one unit before mutliplying is in itself wrong because at different concentrations, you get different numbers when the ratio SHOULD stay the same. (I.e. if you convert EBC to SRM at can level, you get a different conversion to if you dilute the can in 23L and then convert it)

Dr Smurto had the best approximation I've seen with his 0.508 but I've just slightly tried to improve on it by using a power function.

Please also note that the "commercial beers" tab is a bit empty at the moment but I'm working on it, any help is greatly appreciated. There are also tabs with helpful information about bitterness and colour etc. And I've included all the manufacturer's descriptions for their kits (except MSB) so that you can try to get an idea for the difference between the kits whose colour and bitterness are the same.

Have I forgotten anything? I hope not, any questions, let me know.

PLEASE HELP ME BUILD THIS INTO SOMETHING MORE USEFUL

View attachment Colour_and_IBU.xls

 

[sponge]

Very impressive so far....

 

[barry2]

Looking good.
I also found that the colour conversion formulas were many and varied.The following website grouped the SRM numbers by colour .They also have an interesting flavour wheel.

http://www.weekendbrewer.com/brewingformulas.htm


Color SRM NUMBER

Clear 0

Light Straw 1 - 2.5

Pale Straw 2.3 - 3.5

Dark Straw 3.5 - 5.5

Light Amber 5.5 - 10

Pale Amber 10 - 18

Dark Amber or Copper 18 - 26

Very Dark Amber 26 - 40

Black 40 +

 

[maltedhopalong]

Thanks Barry, I've included that chart as well as a few others.

Currently I'm trying to find some info on the brewcraft kits as they seem to be used in quite a few of brewcraft's recipes and I'd like to be able to offer kits of similar style with similar malt/bitterness profiles to substitute for them. Anyone able to help in this regard? Also still trying to find out more info on commercial beer alc %, colour and bitterness numbers.

 

[MHB]

Interesting thread

The Brewcraft kits are all Muntons kits re-badged so you just have to work out which is which; I will try to find the time over the next couple of days to jot down the IBU's and EBC from the cans.

I have gleefully grabbed a copy of the spreadsheets that a couple of you have worked so hard on - thanks - very good information.

A couple of points

What's with the worry about SRM, all the manufacturers information is provided in EBC, we are a metric country and the units used to measure colour here are EBC.
Personally I think Lovibond and SRM should be put in the same draw as Pounds, Shillings and Pennies.

Kit beers always loose 10-15% of their bitterness when brewed (old and hot fermented kits loose more) just something to take into account.

MHB

 

[maltedhopalong]

No idea why I decided to keep the SRM calcs in there, mhb. Just did!

I'm really dubious about the muntons figures. I mean, on their website they say their wheatbeer comes out to 25 to 35 IBU's!!! (For all the muntons kits I put in the middle figure) So it's a bit hard to figure out which kit is which for example the brewcraft dutch lager, I can't see anything there with low enough bitterness to be a match.

 

[MHB]

Well the Dutch Lager says 8-12 EBC and 25-35 EBU (IBU)

I am out of stock on the BCR 1.5 Kg Wheat but the figures on the Muntons Connoisseurs Wheat are as you reported.
The Muntons 1.8 Kg wheat is one of my favourite kit beers, it doesn't taste like 30 IBU, but I do it with 1.5 Kg of Muntons Dry Wheat Malt Extract and a bit of Tettnang.

Perceived Bitterness verses Measured Bitterness is another very important concept; simply put the more other flavours in a beer the less you taste the bitterness.

Thats why beer like Guinness that was traditionally around 60 IBU tastes a lot less bitter.

Dam but I love recipe design - it is one of my favourite jobs; making all the beta versions until you get one dialled isnt too bad either.

MHB

PS
Some of the Muntons figures are a bit hard to believe but their Australian Lager says 50 IBU; I do a 2 can version of it for my Ruination Clone - believe me this is seriously bitter, anywhere near the 100 IBU is pretty scary beer.


Catch - if you're game

Ruination
I.P.A
RUINATION?
Because after one swallow, any other beer will taste like dish-water and food will have no flavour. This is an unvarnished assault on the pallet; if you survive it - you may thank us.

INGREDIENTS: -
Muntons Australian Lager X 2!
LDME 1 Kg
Hops: Taste, Aroma
Chinook 50g
Cascade 25g
Amarillo 25g
Yeast: - Saf T-58

M

 

[barry2]

No idea why I decided to keep the SRM calcs in there, mhb. Just did!

I'm really dubious about the muntons figures. I mean, on their website they say their wheatbeer comes out to 25 to 35 IBU's!!! (For all the muntons kits I put in the middle figure) So it's a bit hard to figure out which kit is which for example the brewcraft dutch lager, I can't see anything there with low enough bitterness to be a match.

From my can of Brewcraft Czech Pilsener.
Typical Analysis EBC 4-7 EBU 25-35
"Try Saflager yeast in place of the yeast supplied under the cap for a crisper drier flavour "

www.brewcraft.com.au
email [email protected]

Made in England by Muntons of Stowmarket
Imported by Brewcraft Albany New Zealand
Distributed in Australia by
Concept Brokers Ltd
19 Lathe Street,Virginia Qld 4014
07 3630 8400

 

[maltedhopalong]

Thanks barry,

I've sent an email off to [email protected] and it bounced back.