Kevin Rudd Becomes Primeminister Of Australia

[tcraig20]

James,

It makes sense. Even support from a former PM from the Left in Hawke. He noted that Australia is the best suited country to deal with waste.

I think people need to get real about 'green' energy. Solar sounds great, but it's majority DC current. What do you do with all the waste batteries?

Wind? That was proposed for the cliffs around Kurnell in Sydney. Unfortunately views get in the way. Ever been to Palm Springs in California? Here's a photo when I drove through 3 years ago, this is a couple hours west of LA. Do you think the green folk would allow something like this along the coast? I don't think so.

View attachment 16228

It doesnt make sense really. Id be suprised if there is still economically-viable uranium deposits in 50 years, with what's left locked into long-term supply contracts with Europe and China. It makes about as much economic sense as building new oil-fired plants.

Wind is my least-favoured option, its too variable and you are right, its an eyesore. On the other hand, we do have vast expanses of virtually uninhabited desert. My favoured options are geothermal and graphite block/molten salt solar at the moment (new technology may present itself). There was a project at UNSW using titanium based catalysts to produce hydrogen from seawater and sunlight. Seems promising, but we'll see how it pans out.

Personally, I dont think we should be in the business of selling nuclear fuel. We should be in the business of LEASING it. That way it remains our property (easier to track and make sure it isnt going into weapons), and we can factor disposal costs into the lease arrangement.

The entire nuclear industry reeks of corporate socialism.

 

[Duff]

It is true that we are just expending reserves with no real thought in mind to the future. Given the geographic of the country, not sure how wind farms in the central desert would go, but there is a need for renewable energy. This is where, and I agree, that Howard didn't do enough. As far as many things go, like water, Australia has enough to fulfill its requirements. Unfortunately, it just doesn't fall where we want it to. What we need are strong and decisive leaders who don't worry about tax cuts, but will construct infrastructure NOW which will assist in the nations future.

Hydro energy is one area which I think we could really expand on. The Snowy system was buit decades ago, why not now? Yes, you will have to pay more for your power, but there has to be a balance somewhere.

Then there is the debate of how much we actually are contributing to global warming, but I won't start that

 

[tcraig20]

Seeing as this is meant to be "jokes and humour", some of you might appreciate this:

 

[AngelTearsOnMyTongue]

Seeing as this is meant to be "jokes and humour", some of you might appreciate this:

Oh I really like that. Its a Cracker

Yes it would appear we got a little serious for the Jokes and Humour section.

I am guessing and hoping, what with the "Ear wax" incident as a starter (It made it onto Letterman), that KR will bring us as many charicatures and joke fodder as JH did.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Duff


Its nice to know that you are a Howard Liberal voting supporter of Nuclear Power...

I am am going back to my organic garden and AG beers....

 

[Maxt]

Duff
Its nice to know that you are a Howard Liberal voting supporter of Nuclear Power...

I am am going back to my organic garden and AG beers....

:lol: :lol:

 

[Linz]

It is true that we are just expending reserves with no real thought in mind to the future. Given the geographic of the country, not sure how wind farms in the central desert would go, but there is a need for renewable energy. This is where, and I agree, that Howard didn't do enough. As far as many things go, like water, Australia has enough to fulfill its requirements. Unfortunately, it just doesn't fall where we want it to. What we need are strong and decisive leaders who don't worry about tax cuts, but will construct infrastructure NOW which will assist in the nations future.

Hydro energy is one area which I think we could really expand on. The Snowy system was buit decades ago, why not now? Yes, you will have to pay more for your power, but there has to be a balance somewhere.

Then there is the debate of how much we actually are contributing to global warming, but I won't start that

Dont know why there isnt a push for ethanol(made from sugar cane and produces water as an end product!and can be made at HOME!) and bio-diesel.... Oh I do Car manufacturers/Oil Co's paying pollies campain debt!!!

 

[chovain]

Dont know why there isnt a push for ethanol(made from sugar cane and produces water as an end product!and can be made at HOME!) and bio-diesel.... Oh I do Car manufacturers/Oil Co's paying pollies campain debt!!!

Or it could just be that most of us would rather use the land and water for food. Oh - and it takes huge amounts of energy to extract ethanol from wash. Ethanol is great if we can find better ways of producing it.

What exactly do you mean by "produces water as an end product"? You do realise it's a relatively closed system, right? The sugar cane absorbs carbon from atmospheric CO2, and hydrogen from ground water. Through fermentation and combustion, that water and CO2 is then re-released. Cane-derived ethanol combustion is just an elaborate solar cell.

 

[Duff]

Duff
Its nice to know that you are a Howard Liberal voting supporter of Nuclear Power...

I am am going back to my organic garden and AG beers....

Thanks Stu.

Your region would be perfect for a plant since all that water in the Clarence River is just going to waste.

Cheers.

 

[sathid]

Or it could just be that most of us would rather use the land and water for food. Oh - and it takes huge amounts of energy to extract ethanol from wash. Ethanol is great if we can find better ways of producing it.

There are other ways of producing that won't use anywhere near as much arible land. But they need the $$ and incentives to support it.

The car manufacturers are holding back biodiesel. There are cars in europe, that offer warranty for cars run on B20 (20% bio, 80% diesel) and some that will for B100 (pure biodiesel).

In Australia, those same cars only carry warranty for at MAX, B5 (5% biodiesel).

They say it is because the fuel is unknown/untested in australia (despite our standards being based on the european standards.). The market is small, because there is no manufacturer support, and visa versa.

In reality it doesn't affect your warranty anyway, unless they can prove that the fuel caused the problem. But they don't tell you that.

 

[Zizzle]

I think this thread is excellent, and couldn't disagree more with the previous poster. Ignorance and refusing to acknowledge other people's point of view is what causes problems.

There have been a good range of well informed opinions presented here, and I have learned a thing or two.

No one got shirty or attacked or flamed. I think it demonstrates the calibre of the people on the forum.

What's better than having a yarn with mates, no matter the subject? Keep it civil and there are no problems.

And if you don't like it, then don't read it.

 

[tcraig20]

Dont know why there isnt a push for ethanol(made from sugar cane and produces water as an end product!and can be made at HOME!) and bio-diesel.... Oh I do Car manufacturers/Oil Co's paying pollies campain debt!!!

Because its nothing more than a virtually energy-neutral exercise in giving indirect subsidies to the National party support base?

 

[pokolbinguy]

Geeze look at this, Howard is leading the vote count in his electorate. If only the greens preferences were not counted. He is slowly making his way back into his electorate. Good on him I say.

Very interesting

bennelong

Pok

 

[tcraig20]

Geeze look at this, Howard is leading the vote count in his electorate. If only the greens preferences were not counted. He is slowly making his way back into his electorate. Good on him I say.

Very interesting

bennelong

Pok

If the voting system worked like you want it to, the greens would have gotten very few votes indeed and labor would have got a lot more. Just look how hard it is for third parties in the US...

Looks like he's toast, he needs 5024 of the remaining 7513 votes by my reckoning.

 

[pokolbinguy]

If the voting system worked like you want it to, the greens would have gotten very few votes indeed and labor would have got a lot more. Just look how hard it is for third parties in the US...

Looks like he's toast, he needs 5024 of the remaining 7513 votes by my reckoning.

Atleast it proves he was not exactly "thrown" out and that he is still well respected.

Pok

 

[AngelTearsOnMyTongue]

Well since we seemed to have digressed somewhat from both the KR and the Jokes and Humour and wandered into the environment and alternative energy discussion. Check thisLink to see why Australia is the best spot in the world for solar energy.

ATOMT

 

[goatherder]

Now that we are way off topic...

Has anyone heard of any accounting of the methane gas given off due to coal mining?

We export a lot of coal, but in theory the country that burns the coal accounts for the CO2 emission.

Methane is something like 25 times worse than CO2 as a greenhouse gas.

I'm days late replying to this one but it's something I deal with at work.

Fugitive emissions from coal mining need to be accounted for when counting emissions. Emissions are accounted for in t-C02e - tonnes of C02 equivalent. If you emit greenhouse gasses like methane or refrigerants then you multiply those gasses by an equivalence factor to account for the fact that they are worse than plain old C02. So, as Zizzle pointed out, methane is 22 times worse than C02 on a tonne-for-tonne basis. If you mine coal, then you liberate methane which is trapped within the coal seams. This is treated by the AGO (Australian Greenhouse Office) as emissions and they give you emission factors depending on what the type and location of the coal mine. There are orders of magnitudes of difference in the amount of methane in different coal mines - some have very little, some have an awful lot.

From memory, business who use more than 0.5 PJ/yr of energy need to report their energy usage and greenhouse gas emissions and show progress towards reducing them. Calculations need to be done according to the AGO workbook, which contains the full-cycle emission factors for each energy type, along with emission factors for coal mining, explosive usage, refrigerant usage etc.

http://www.greenhouse.gov.au/workbook/index.html

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Thanks Stu.

Your region would be perfect for a plant since all that water in the Clarence River is just going to waste.

Cheers.

You ignorance has been noted..... <_<