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Drewgong

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The KL cylinders aren’t any different just a lot cheaper than others.

I think the problem is that some retailers would prefer to continue making a larger profit margin on the initial bottle purchase from their customers rather than only profit from refilling them.

Apparently some retailers may refuse to refill KL bottles. I don’t think that would be a good policy though as innocent KL bottle owners who get turned away from their LHBS will just have to find a cooperative brew shop to fill them and most likely take their other brew related business there also.
Right on S.E if my local refused to refill a kl bottle for no justifiable reason other than because there being a sook then I would find myself a new brew shop
 
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I think the way KegLand has acted diminishes the amount of home brew stores who are willing to participate in anything KegLand has to offer. If you had a home brew store and had purchased gas bottles, kegs, Robobrews or Kegerators and KegLand undercuts that price so the margin if the home brew store wants to match KegLand is going to be 10% or even zilch. It's the bigger ticketed items make the money for the home brew stores, they will not survive selling grain, yeast and hops. So imagine if the home brew stores closed down, who is going to sell the consumables?
There is no 'price war' the only salvo's being fired are from KegLand, where is the return fire?
 

Mat B

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So a group of blokes threw some capital together to start a new venture to compete in their industry. Their prices are low and they’re gaining a competitive edge as a result. Sure that might be making life tough for some in the industry, but last time I checked, competition is not only legal, but usually something that people in the country actively welcome. From my point of view, the landscape has changed, there’s new competition and some better pricing for consumers. They’re hardly a big powerhouse like Woolworths.

They’re not responsible for the health of other businesses, or how others make ends meet for their families. I’m sure these guys have families too and are trying to get a head for the same reasons. If competition is changing your industry, maybe it’s time to start adapting. I’ve seen huge amounts of the same homebrew gear available on aliexpress. If you want to be successful in business, get savvy.

As a consumer, I like low prices. Happy to support a LHBS, but only if they’re being competitive and providing good products and services, which isn’t always the case in my experience.
 

Mat B

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So imagine if the home brew stores closed down, who is going to sell the consumables?
That comment is a bit far fetched. If home brew stores are not willing to participate in an industry because one company out competed them, then good riddance. The market will always be there, and so will suppliers. There will always be sources of grain available. It's silly to think that there's going to be no grain supplies while Kegland sell kegging gear. I'm pretty sure they and their competitors can see the problems that would cause them.
 
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Where do you think that the retailer buys their goods, off the wholesaler, KegLand defines itself as a wholesaler, if it sells to a retailer an item for $50 then starts t sell the same item for $45 how can a retailer put a margin on the goods bought from the wholesaler. Everyone has to make money as I mentioned earlier in this thread if you are not making more money than you could make working for someone else shut up shop and get a job.
KegKing is foremost a wholesaler, it retails but does not undercut the the RRP of an item, KegLand does that's not out competing the competition, the retailers are the distributors for the wholesaler, not competition to them.
 

Mat B

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Kegland seem to be operating as a retailer too from what I can see, and why shouldn't they?

In response to your question, I assume they buy their goods from kegking and kegland. That's my point. If those entities are going to compete with them directly, then start adapting your business. Source gear from China direct. Find a new supplier OS. Change is inevitable. Home brew shops need to apply some adaptive solutions to these new challenges.
 
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That's the point, home brew shops cannot survive in those circumstances. As KegLand says earlier it is cutting prices to get known,which is bullshit. They only have to be a sponsor on here and have an eBay store to be known to brewers. To adapt a business and become an importer / retailer takes money and space as in bigger premises if the retailer can't do either then the retailer is no more. You have to think a small store importing containers have to move the goods, they can't that is why there are wholesalers to spread the load using the retail stores. That's how the marriage of retail / wholesale survive, undercutting the retail business you are in partnership with, will not be any benefit to either business
 

Drewgong

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I think it's time to get this thread back on track . All the haters of kegland jumped all over this buisness when they posted in other threads they accused kegland of hijacking threads. So kegland made there own thread Now your all doing the same thing . No amount of whinging is going to help your cause adapt or die
 

Scott919r

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whats the closest to dandenong or cranbourne for refilling?
i asked supagas but they wont touch any as i emailed them

Hi Scott,

Thank you for your enquiry.

Unfortunately we do not touch any gas cylinder that is not ours, so we would be unable to refill the ones you've got there.

We can certainly supply the gas however. The smallest CO2 cylinder which we can supply is a 6kg bottle & you would need to set up an account with us as supply is on a rental basis. We do not sell our cylinders outright.



If you required pricing information, please let us know.



Kind Regards,

Toni Ganaban Customer Service
23 Commercial Drive Dandenong Victoria 3175
T: (03) 9706 6262 F: (03) 9706 4787
 

MHB

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There seems to be a lot of confusion between competition, and anti competitive behavior ... or more specifically predatory pricing.

Pricing with the intent of driving your competitor out of the market IS illegal.
I'm not even going to discuss the matter you raise, but it's inappropriate for retailers to comment in other retailers threads.
If you want to start your own thread, fine but its been regarded as good manners to stay out of others threads.
Mark
 

Jack of all biers

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There seems to be a lot of confusion between competition, and anti competitive behavior ... or more specifically predatory pricing.

Pricing with the intent of driving your competitor out of the market IS illegal.
Sounds like you are convinced. Why not report them to the ACCC and let them deal with it? If not then as MHB said start your own thread.
 

S.E

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I think the way KegLand has acted diminishes the amount of home brew stores who are willing to participate in anything KegLand has to offer. If you had a home brew store and had purchased gas bottles, kegs, Robobrews or Kegerators and KegLand undercuts that price so the margin if the home brew store wants to match KegLand is going to be 10% or even zilch. It's the bigger ticketed items make the money for the home brew stores, they will not survive selling grain, yeast and hops. So imagine if the home brew stores closed down, who is going to sell the consumables?
There is no 'price war' the only salvo's being fired are from KegLand, where is the return fire?
Thing is WEAL if you go back just 10 years the bigger ticketed items you speak of were not commonly bought from or even available from homebrew shops and they did just fine.

A lot of smaller HBS (even these days) didn’t cater competitively for or promote all grain brewing preferring to concentrate on new brewers buying cans of goop and plastic fermenters.

Most all grain brewers in the past built their own breweries from 50L kegs or Birco boilers and such but it’s hardly worth the effort these days with the cheap systems available.

Companies like KK and KL along with brewing forums are fast changing homebrewing. It is getting increasingly easy and affordable to make the jump from kit brewing or even skip it altogether with products like Robobrew.

The way things are going I think HBS are going to have to figure out how to make money selling grain and hops. Then the bottle shops will start complaining that HBS are ruining their business making it so easy and cheap to brew great beer.:D
 

Rick88

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Hi Kegland.

I have a couple of questions.


I watched your robobrew video on YouTube and noticed that you said you can use the pump to recirculate wort though the immersion chiller.
What is the temperature rating for the pump?
Pretty keen on one of these units as they seem like a great way to get into all grain without spending a fortune.

I also watched your video on the comparison of kegs and how yours are superior to Keg Kings.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but was Kee not the one selling these "inferior" kegs 12 months ago?
If I am correct, it seems a bit tacky to be bagging them out.
 
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10 years ago Sean it was a different market, the reason home brew shops sell stainless steel fittings, kegs, gas bottles, conicle fermenters, Grainfather, Robobrew and the likes is because of the wholesalers bringing them in and selling them to the retailers, once a wholesaler starts slashing the RRP albeit for the short term, that wholesaler isn't going to be trusting of the wholesaler who slashes the prices.
On top of that the home brew stores have to compete in the world market on the internet, I have bought my mainstay hops from USA, the last lot I bought was from Glasgow.
The home brew market is small, if a wholesaler wants to go down the track of selling through eBay only,
the amount of stock they would have to carry would be huge.
I cant see them making money, sales of things like Robobrew and Kegerators would soon slow up, unless they sell to USA which is part of KegLands objective.
 

Coalminer

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Hands up all those here who have bought equipment or supplies from Amazon, Aliexpress, Ebay, China or anywhere other than their local suppliers to save a few dollars. I would include bulk buys at the expense of other suppliers (my hand is up for that). I'm sure any decent LHBS will source those things for you if asked.
 

Yuz

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Hands up all those here who have bought equipment or supplies from Amazon, Aliexpress, Ebay, China or anywhere other than their local suppliers to save a few dollars. I would include bulk buys at the expense of other suppliers (my hand is up for that). I'm sure any decent LHBS will source those things for you if asked.
The only brew-related gear I bought from overseas is something that is uncommon / unavailable locally - ie the Adjustable PRV BB and associated NPT-spec fittings. Plus some Silicone O-rings and Mini Filters. So in total the local suppliers have missed out on my $50 odd - and only because they didn't have what's needed.
 

KegLand-com-au

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That comment is a bit far fetched. If home brew stores are not willing to participate in an industry because one company out competed them, then good riddance. The market will always be there, and so will suppliers. There will always be sources of grain available. It's silly to think that there's going to be no grain supplies while Kegland sell kegging gear. I'm pretty sure they and their competitors can see the problems that would cause them.
Grain sales to home brew stores have been growing by double digit growth for the past 5 years. This is one of the factors why the Robobrews have been selling out so fast. Every time we sell a Robobrew there is an all grain brewer that will require grain for the next few years. So I would agree that selling gear cheap doesnt necessarily mean the potencial sales for the consumables is smaller. It might even be the reverse.

One of the issues that we commonly see however is the fact that a lot of home brew stores are getting left behind. The industry is changing a lot with a lot of new gear coming out. New hops, new malt varieties and new methods of making beer. Although the market is growing steadily not all home brew stores are keeping up with the demands of the modern home brewers. This is in our opinion one of the main reasons we are seeing a concentration of sales in fewer home brew stores. We are seeing the top 20% of retail stores taking a disproportionate number of the sales as the industry grows. I think this is one of the biggest threats to the corner store home brew shop.
 

KegLand-com-au

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Hi Kegland.

I have a couple of questions.


I watched your robobrew video on YouTube and noticed that you said you can use the pump to recirculate wort though the immersion chiller.
What is the temperature rating for the pump?
Pretty keen on one of these units as they seem like a great way to get into all grain without spending a fortune.

I also watched your video on the comparison of kegs and how yours are superior to Keg Kings.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but was Kee not the one selling these "inferior" kegs 12 months ago?
If I am correct, it seems a bit tacky to be bagging them out.

Finally a question actually on topic.

We have recently changed plastic in the pump head of the Robobrew and also the magnetic drive pumps that we sell. We used to use a polysulphone which was the same as the March pumps. With that said we have found a new Japanese raw material called Xarec Syndiotactic Polystyrene:
http://www.idemitsu.com/products/petrochemicals/engineering/polystyrene.html
This plastic is not cheap but it's well worth it because it's so stable at high temperatures. You can see the data sheet. We actually use this as a glass reinvorced plastic so it's got excellent properties.

Some other cheaper pumps will typically use the glass reinforced PP. Often glass reinforced PP looks ok when it's new but over time it can creep a little and then cause the dimensional stability of the head of the pump to warp a little over time if elevevated temperatures are used for extended time. This was an issue for a lot of the earlier Grainfather units which used glass reinforced PP.

With regarsd to the kegs Keg King have burned the bridges with the suppliers in China. During this shareholder dispute the remaining shareholder at Keg King decided not to pay the supplier in China who is now out of pocket by over USD$100k. The suppliers used to be loyal to Keg King however if you dont pay your supplier they will eventually go and supply someone else. The same suppliers now are working closely with KegLand Distribution PTY LTD. As a result you will probably find that the kegs that were sold at Keg King prior to Jan 2018 were the same quality as what we are selling now as they are identical. With that said now that Keg King have gone to Alibaba to try and find a whole range of new suppliers in China they are starting to work out how difficult it is to find good quality gear. So the Kegs that have been sold by Keg King after Jan 2018 are definitely not the same as ours kegs. So if you purchased kegs from Keg King prior to Jan 2018 they are probably great.
 

KegLand-com-au

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Finally a question actually on topic.

We have recently changed plastic in the pump head of the Robobrew and also the magnetic drive pumps that we sell. We used to use a polysulphone which was the same as the March pumps. With that said we have found a new Japanese raw material called Xarec Syndiotactic Polystyrene:
http://www.idemitsu.com/products/petrochemicals/engineering/polystyrene.html
This plastic is not cheap but it's well worth it because it's so stable at high temperatures. You can see the data sheet. We actually use this as a glass reinvorced plastic so it's got excellent properties.

Some other cheaper pumps will typically use the glass reinforced PP. Often glass reinforced PP looks ok when it's new but over time it can creep a little and then cause the dimensional stability of the head of the pump to warp a little over time if elevevated temperatures are used for extended time. This was an issue for a lot of the earlier Grainfather units which used glass reinforced PP.

With regarsd to the kegs Keg King have burned the bridges with the suppliers in China. During this shareholder dispute the remaining shareholder at Keg King decided not to pay the supplier in China who is now out of pocket by over USD$100k. The suppliers used to be loyal to Keg King however if you dont pay your supplier they will eventually go and supply someone else. The same suppliers now are working closely with KegLand Distribution PTY LTD. As a result you will probably find that the kegs that were sold at Keg King prior to Jan 2018 were the same quality as what we are selling now as they are identical. With that said now that Keg King have gone to Alibaba to try and find a whole range of new suppliers in China they are starting to work out how difficult it is to find good quality gear. So the Kegs that have been sold by Keg King after Jan 2018 are definitely not the same as ours kegs. So if you purchased kegs from Keg King prior to Jan 2018 they are probably great.
Sorry I forgot to specifically answer your question. With regards to temperatures you can definitely use the pump with high temperatures above boiling point. As you can see from the chemical resistance at high temperature chart in the link above if you are using some aggressive solvents, or chemical substances it may not be a good idea to use the pump with boiling sodium hydroxide for instance (probably wouldnt recommend any home brewer to do this anyway). The pump head will handle temperatures above 120C if you are talking about water/wort.

I also should add that the Xarec is also much better for the environment than polysulphone that we used to use.
 

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