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TwoCrows

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All businesses should feel comfortable with what they sell.

Not all need to sell everything. Sell what you want and target who is willing to buy from you. My mechanic doesn't sell new cars.


Quote..............The perceived value of these products is already destroyed ... a 6kg Co2 bottle is now worth $99 and will never return to the $249 it used to be. So congratulations ... you now can have all the gas bottle sales that we used to get, but do not expect us to then support your products.

Why is it priced @ $ 249.00 ? A profit is made at $99.00 , why would I be happy paying $150 more.

I am happy that I can choose who and what I can buy.

Keg Land doesn't sell grain and have a shop front outlet.

I am happy to support my local HBS ,
 

KegLand-com-au

www.KegLand.com.au - A Land of Stainless Steel
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As an observer the only dispute I see is KegLand slashing prices to get at KegKing with no thought for the Home brew stores who's loyalty you may want down the track. How can you expect a store to be loyal to you when you slash prices on a whim. So a retailer can make $3.66 on some sanitiser which will last forever and a day, can't see much bread on the table coming from that. A retailer wants good solid profit margins off what should be bread and butter products like kegs, Robobrew and the like. If a retailer can't make as much money as he could working for someone else he may as well have a fire sale and shut up shop. Is this your aim.
Our main aim at the moment is to compete with the other wholesale importer/s. Yes our retail prices are lower but so are our wholesale prices. We are simply making less margin both at the retail and wholesale level. We are doing this by simply being a much more efficient business. We definitely have already started to increase retail prices to allow more margin for the retail stores that we work with and we will continue to increase margins for this same reason. As our business is only a few months old now you can expect that we will continue to make changes to improve our offerings, and also improve the service and support that we give to retailers that work with us.
 

KegLand-com-au

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As time goes on?

Brew Shop owners do not have the luxury of time when dealing with the fallout from your damaged egos ... we don't care if you feel hard done by from your previous employers and want to punish them.

KegLand and KegKing obviously feel that the ONLY thing they have to offer is price. Neither has attempted to win market share via superior products and customer service ... it is just who can sell it the cheapest to try and kill the other, regardless of the damage it does.

The perceived value of these products is already destroyed ... a 6kg Co2 bottle is now worth $99 and will never return to the $249 it used to be. So congratulations ... you now can have all the gas bottle sales that we used to get, but do not expect us to then support your products.
Hello Armstrong. We are sorry you feel this way. Definitely no ego over here. The shareholder dispute has now gone far beyond ego. We are simply making the best possible business decissions in the most unemmotional way posssibly. Our major priority is to get the price ware ended in the fastest way possible so we can return to running the business which we want to run which includes working with retailers.

If for instance gas cylinders can never be sold at $249 again and gas cylinders become something of a bulk comodity(which probably would have eventually happened anyway) then it will be our job to come up with new, innovative products that do have better margin then make these available to retailers. One of the reasons we are so committed to design and innovation is because we believe that this is the only thing that will push both our business forward but also give retailers the opportunity to stock product that makes better margin.

Yes, KegLand has started selling gear cheap just to get out there and get found. This is by no means our long term strategy. We hope we can work with you Armstrong and all the other retailers in Australia. We are confident that when all the dust settles on this issue we will still be able to offer retailers a great opportunity to be distributors.
 

Quokka42

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[I deleted the quote as I don't think it's necessary.]

Thank you for a bit of clarity. I'm afraid I still believe in supporting bricks and mortar stores as most brewing supplies are not practical by mail order (and I am still extremely untrusting of ebay/online stores.) I admit I have made a purchase from you, but unless you expand past your current model I can't see it happening again soon - hint, hint - if you are capable of a bit of quality control to ensure the correct alloy and welding techniques are used, there is a huge market for reasonably priced mini-kegs.

I don't think Keg-King will go away soon, but I hope that both of you survive.
 

Quokka42

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Hello Armstrong. We are sorry you feel this way. Definitely no ego over here. The shareholder dispute has now gone far beyond ego. We are simply making the best possible business decissions in the most unemmotional way posssibly. Our major priority is to get the price ware ended in the fastest way possible so we can return to running the business which we want to run which includes working with retailers.

If for instance gas cylinders can never be sold at $249 again and gas cylinders become something of a bulk comodity(which probably would have eventually happened anyway) then it will be our job to come up with new, innovative products that do have better margin then make these available to retailers. One of the reasons we are so committed to design and innovation is because we believe that this is the only thing that will push both our business forward but also give retailers the opportunity to stock product that makes better margin.

Yes, KegLand has started selling gear cheap just to get out there and get found. This is by no means our long term strategy. We hope we can work with you Armstrong and all the other retailers in Australia. We are confident that when all the dust settles on this issue we will still be able to offer retailers a great opportunity to be distributors.
I admit I only know KK as a customer in the shop, but I'm afraid I tend to agree with KegLand here - at the retail level at least KK are concentrating on being a good LHBS and don't want to comment on the troubles.

As for the gas bottles, I have a little E size for my MIG, but in Total Tools the other day I saw D size outright for $300.00 so I think there is a bit of a war going on with the breaking of the monopoly across the board. I already have two 2.6kg CO2 bottles I can exchange but great to see prices coming down (snap them up now, though - metal prices mean they won't stay quite this low forever.)
 

Drewgong

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I admit I only know KK as a customer in the shop, but I'm afraid I tend to agree with KegLand here - at the retail level at least KK are concentrating on being a good LHBS and don't want to comment on the troubles.

As for the gas bottles, I have a little E size for my MIG, but in Total Tools the other day I saw D size outright for $300.00 so I think there is a bit of a war going on with the breaking of the monopoly across the board. I already have two 2.6kg CO2 bottles I can exchange but great to see prices coming down (snap them up now, though - metal prices mean they won't stay quite this low forever.)
for your welding gas mate check out bunnings they have d size bottles of coregas for $99 no rental keep it long as you like but you have to pay $200 deposit
and for those of you who oxygenate your wort they have d size oxy for $69 same deposit amount
 

pcmfisher

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All businesses should feel comfortable with what they sell.

Not all need to sell everything. Sell what you want and target who is willing to buy from you. My mechanic doesn't sell new cars.


Quote..............The perceived value of these products is already destroyed ... a 6kg Co2 bottle is now worth $99 and will never return to the $249 it used to be. So congratulations ... you now can have all the gas bottle sales that we used to get, but do not expect us to then support your products.

Why is it priced @ $ 249.00 ? A profit is made at $99.00 , why would I be happy paying $150 more.

I am happy that I can choose who and what I can buy.

Keg Land doesn't sell grain and have a shop front outlet.

I am happy to support my local HBS ,
You think the wholesale price used to be anywhere near $99?
 

KegLand-com-au

www.KegLand.com.au - A Land of Stainless Steel
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for your welding gas mate check out bunnings they have d size bottles of coregas for $99 no rental keep it long as you like but you have to pay $200 deposit
and for those of you who oxygenate your wort they have d size oxy for $69 same deposit amount
It would seem that gas cylinders are becoming a comodity item making it difficult to charge higher prices and this definitely doent help. So with new competitors in the market its fairly normaly to see some degree of price erosion

As mentioned we really believe the best way for us to provide products with good margin for retailers is to innovate. If we make new innovative products that are simply designed better this is what will allow us to charge more and give retailers better margin opportinities. We have done this extensively in the past and we will continue to do this in the future.
 

Armstrong

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Why is it priced @ $ 249.00 ? A profit is made at $99.00 , why would I be happy paying $150 more.
,
I thought that was my point exactly.

" ... the outcomes go both ways. Great for the consumer - competition has resulted incredibly cheap product ... Bad for the consumer - very few in the industry are prepared to support these products (refills, repairs or service)"

Would you expect a Ford Dealership to service your new Holden?
 

Armstrong

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If for instance gas cylinders can never be sold at $249 again and gas cylinders become something of a bulk commodity (which probably would have eventually happened anyway) ...
Eventually? Probably ... but creating it now was unnecessary.

... Our major priority is to get the price ware ended in the fastest way possible so we can return to running the business which we want to run which includes working with retailers.
And what will it take to end this price war?
 

KegLand-com-au

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[I deleted the quote as I don't think it's necessary.]

Thank you for a bit of clarity. I'm afraid I still believe in supporting bricks and mortar stores as most brewing supplies are not practical by mail order (and I am still extremely untrusting of ebay/online stores.) I admit I have made a purchase from you, but unless you expand past your current model I can't see it happening again soon - hint, hint - if you are capable of a bit of quality control to ensure the correct alloy and welding techniques are used, there is a huge market for reasonably priced mini-kegs.

I don't think Keg-King will go away soon, but I hope that both of you survive.
Thanks for that. We totally agree. You should support your local retail store.

By the second half of this year we will also have a physical retail outlet finished so you will also be able to come and see us. Our new retail premesis and distribution warehouse will be located in Dandenong.

It's hard to say if Keg King will go away very soon or not. What I can say is the people who build that company no longer work there and the remaining shareholder has no interest in the home brewing industry and has made several attempts to sell the business to various other investors over the past 5 months without any luck. Keg King are also opperating out of a warehouse where the lease has expired/is no longer valid and the two warehouses at 33-35 Smith rd is Still 2/3rds owned by two people who now work at KegLand Distribution PTY LTD. So as you can imagine this is a complicated situation.

The only thing for certain is that KegLand Distribution is here to stay. We will continue to grow our customer base, make new innovative new products and continue to service our growing customers for many years to come because all the owners, staff, shareholders and directors simply love the industry, love the hobby and we are passionate about making gear that makes better beer.
 
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It isn't a price war, you were right the first time Armstrong, its more a vendetta against KegKing. As for selling things cheap to get themselves known out in the market, there is such a thing as advertising. All the small retailers who had paid for the Robobrew 3 or 2 were left in the lurch with no consideration from KegLand when they undercut the price. I have no issues with a wholesaler wearing two hats as both wholesaler and retailer as long as they play the game fairly. If KegLand wants to get the retailers onside they would do well to keep in mind the old adage Trust takes years to make, seconds to break and forever to repair.
 

KegLand-com-au

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Eventually? Probably ... but creating it now was unnecessary.



And what will it take to end this price war?
Hello Armstrong. I know at the moment it probably seems like the sky is falling in for retailers as the price is hitting rock bottom. It's natural and normal to want to know an exact date of when a price war will end and we definitely don't blame you for feeling this way. It also might seem like this type of conflict is unnecessary. We would be more than happy to give you the complete story so you can understand the complex nature of the dipute that is underway but perhaps this type of sensitive detail is best left to private conversation rather than a public forum. With that said the court proceedings have already begun so it's only a matter of time until the situation is resolved once and for all. If you know anything about court proceedings you will know that it's impossible to say at the beginning of proceedings how long they will go for but what we can say is that it will determine some kind of result at the end.
 

KegLand-com-au

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It isn't a price war, you were right the first time Armstrong, its more a vendetta against KegKing. As for selling things cheap to get themselves known out in the market, there is such a thing as advertising. All the small retailers who had paid for the Robobrew 3 or 2 were left in the lurch with no consideration from KegLand when they undercut the price. I have no issues with a wholesaler wearing two hats as both wholesaler and retailer as long as they play the game fairly. If KegLand wants to get the retailers onside they would do well to keep in mind the old adage Trust takes years to make, seconds to break and forever to repair.
Thanks for your point of view. Yes advertising is one way to become known but it just has not been part of our strategy not in the past nor into the future. We have never been big advocates for advertising.

What we believe is that advertising doesnt really add value to the products that we sell. We believe in spending money in design, innovation, giving good service and providing what we can in the most efficient manner that we can will ultimately lead to happy customers. We believe that if we do this then our happy customers will ultimately be the best advertising.
 

hooper80

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Our cylinders are made precicely to the Australian standard and they are approved and hydro tested as they should be. As we have only been selling the KegLand cylinders for the past few months definitely we dont have as many locations around Australia that can do refills. With that said we just had 3 new refill stations added to this map last week:

https://www.kegland.com.au/distributor/

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...ll=-28.725128756560174,134.60527650000006&z=4

I am 100% sure that as time goes on we will continue to increase the number of refill stations around Australia.

If anyone has a particular home brew store, or site that they would like to see refills offered just email the details to us at beer@kegland.com.au. We will contact that potencial refill station, send them the work cover approval paperwork and also the certification information and also do what we can to confince them to start offering refilling on our cylinders.
I have a small Co2 swap and go business on Queensland’s Sunshine Coast. What makes keg lands Co2 cylinders so different from any normal Co2 cylinder? Why do the punters need a specific/special venue to get a refill or swap?
 

KegLand-com-au

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I have a small Co2 swap and go business on Queensland’s Sunshine Coast. What makes keg lands Co2 cylinders so different from any normal Co2 cylinder? Why do the punters need a specific/special venue to get a refill or swap?
The KegLand cylinders are no different to other cylinders. They are no better or worse. They are simply the same.

What is your business called? If you send us your details to beer@kegland.com.au we will add you to our refill station map.
 

S.E

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I have a small Co2 swap and go business on Queensland’s Sunshine Coast. What makes keg lands Co2 cylinders so different from any normal Co2 cylinder? Why do the punters need a specific/special venue to get a refill or swap?
The KL cylinders aren’t any different just a lot cheaper than others.

I think the problem is that some retailers would prefer to continue making a larger profit margin on the initial bottle purchase from their customers rather than only profit from refilling them.

Apparently some retailers may refuse to refill KL bottles. I don’t think that would be a good policy though as innocent KL bottle owners who get turned away from their LHBS will just have to find a cooperative brew shop to fill them and most likely take their other brew related business there also.
 

pirateagenda

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When are you going to start selling ingredients?
 

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