Keg Morality Question

[Ross]

Ross,

If it's plastic jobbie, they are (IIRC) non-returnable, and that's why I suggested that there may be a different course of action...

I just checked the Inventors ABC website and those are non-refillable, too. So it's prob not one of these.

Not that I condone theft (in fact, I abhor it), but the Ecokeg website mentions the following:
What is the taxation depreciation rate for kegs in %? 37.50

Seems to me that if a brewery get 3 years from a keg, they have completely written down the value of it and they have already got their value from it. Yeah, I know that's a bit simplistic, but it's Saturday and my brain is having a weekend away from work.

Let the responses issue forth...

Seth

Are these Eco kegs now on the market? - the manufacturer said he's email me as soon as he had a release date... i'll have to chase up if they are...

cheers Ross

 

[Weizguy]

oh, I didn't see anything stating that the kegs are on the market yet.
Just the same website that has been there for the last 6 months or more.
Hope I didn't raise false hope.

Might be an idea to "bump" the manufacturer, as they may assume that you aren't a "big buyer" and not worth an email.... I've had that happen to me b4.
Best of luck and keep us all informed.

Beerz
Seth

 

[colinw]

If someone could explain to me how something that is single use, non-refillable, gets labelled as "ECO"- anything, I would be grateful.

Just because someone says something is Eco friendly or green doesn't make it so. Like certain 'hybrid' vehicles which may use less petrol, but are so complex to manufacture that their environmental impact over the total lifecycle of the vehicle is still greater than most conventional small cars. A lot of 'green' marketing is a con-job.

Oh, and return the kegs. They are not your property. No gray area here.

 

[redgums500]

God what a bunch of boring, holier than thou, goody two shoes brewers we are this afternoon.
Let the brewer that is Not in possesion of a "hot " keg cast the first stone!!! :super:

Redgums
and i ain't throwing no stones

 

[Lactobacillus]

I'm sure there are plenty of brewers out there who have not stolen a keg to use as a boiler. I know I haven't. I know several other brewers who haven't. Again, are we trying to justify our actions by sharing the blame amongst many. What is the saying? "Guilt divided is guilt shared"?

If you really must have a keg to use as a boiler, approach one of the pubs that sell imported beer on tap. They (at least several years back) used to purchase the beer AND the keg, then get the money for the keg back when they returned it. These days however, imported tap beer is probably not done direct from the brewery, but through a dedicated importer - but it may well be worth enquiring about. Then again, that seems an awful lot of effort to go to when you could just take what isn't yours. :blink: :blink: :blink:

 

[normell]

God what a bunch of boring, holier than thou, goody two shoes brewers we are this afternoon.
Let the brewer that is Not in possesion of a "hot " keg cast the first stone!!! :super:

Redgums
and i ain't throwing no stones

Concider that stone cast

 

[Linz]

Got a f%$#@^king wheelbarrow

 

[Whistlingjack]

The original post was about refilling kegs with your own brew. I can't see a problem with this, as long as the keg is not damaged in any way.

The keg is "borrowed" from the owner (who obviously has no idea where it is) If he wants to reclaim it, he needs to contact his distributor who can then track it down.

Where in the purchase agreement does it state that the keg has to be returned? The purchaser attempted to return it but was knocked back.

IMO possession, being nine-tenths of the law, is the only issue.

 

[browndog]

The original post was about refilling kegs with your own brew. I can't see a problem with this, as long as the keg is not damaged in any way.

The keg is "borrowed" from the owner (who obviously has no idea where it is) If he wants to reclaim it, he needs to contact his distributor who can then track it down.

Where in the purchase agreement does it state that the keg has to be returned? The purchaser attempted to return it but was knocked back.

IMO possession, being nine-tenths of the law, is the only issue.

If it is stolen, then is is stolen. Not very hard to work out at all.

 

[Whistlingjack]

No one stole the keg. It was purchased legally, containing the product.

The retailer who sold the product was offered the empty keg but refused to take it.

So, I would believe the ownership belongs to the purchaser.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Just wondering about the plastic cube thingy's that can be used to hold milk cartons in....


I dont want to give them back, cause than I wont have a brew stand.... h34r:


I did mumble to myself that I would get around to returning them....but I havnt finished using them yet... B)

 

[peas_and_corn]

If your going to steal a keg, then steal the bloody thing and stop trying to justify your actions with a f$%ked up sense of morality. I can see by this thread that most of the people here seem to think that stealing is essentially wrong unless you are stealing from someone you dont like, someone who makes a product you dont like, or someone who is richer than you. But good lord, man, dont steal from someone who makes a product you believe to be superior! Thats just plain wrong!

Touche.

God what a bunch of boring, holier than thou, goody two shoes brewers we are this afternoon.
Let the brewer that is Not in possesion of a "hot " keg cast the first stone!!! :super:

Redgums
and i ain't throwing no stones

I don't have any brewery kegs and I'm not a fan of people who steal them.

No one stole the keg. It was purchased legally, containing the product.

The retailer who sold the product was offered the empty keg but refused to take it.

So, I would believe the ownership belongs to the purchaser.

Well, while you could claim that, the issue here is whether the bloke at the IGA has no idea what he's talking about. IGA orders from a DC, and I'm sure that it's the DC that's responsible for them, not the individual stores- and with any system such as that, communication and stock tracking is difficult. The worry is that the micro would obviously be running on slim margins (there have been threads in the past that have mentioned this) and the loss of a number of kegs would affect their bottom line greatly.


Give the micro a call, and find out what's going on.

Also- what micro is it?

 

[Whistlingjack]

Just don't post a picture of your sculpture.

Even if you block out the brand name, you will arouse suspicion as to how you acquired the said articles.

Don't assume that the guys who chase these items don't have access to the internet.

 

[Whistlingjack]

Of course. The micro has stamped their name.

Offer to return the keg (as the OP has done), but at their convenience.

In the meantime, consider it your property, having paid for it.

 

[T.D.]

In the meantime, consider it your property, having paid for it.

But this is the thing, these kegs are NEVER the property of the purchaser. When you buy a keg of beer, you are buying the beer NOT the keg. The keg remains the property of the brewer no matter what. That's why they have "Remains the property of xyz brewery" stamped on the top. And I've also been told that any 3rd party use is also illegal. Of course, you would have to expect that a brewery would rather you use it for one batch of home brew and then return it to the brewery, rather than cut the top out of it! But either option is technically illegal. There are no two ways about it. I'm not telling anybody here what to do, that is up to them, but it really is a futile task trying to justify stealing kegs as if its above board.

 

[bigfridge]

Ross,

If it's plastic jobbie, they are (IIRC) non-returnable, and that's why I suggested that there may be a different course of action...

I just checked the Inventors ABC website and those are non-refillable, too. So it's prob not one of these.

Not that I condone theft (in fact, I abhor it), but the Ecokeg website mentions the following:
What is the taxation depreciation rate for kegs in %? 37.50

Seems to me that if a brewery get 3 years from a keg, they have completely written down the value of it and they have already got their value from it. Yeah, I know that's a bit simplistic, but it's Saturday and my brain is having a weekend away from work.

Let the responses issue forth...

Seth

Are these Eco kegs now on the market? - the manufacturer said he's email me as soon as he had a release date... i'll have to chase up if they are...

cheers Ross

Ross,

A brewery here in Newcastle is using them (or at least some other non-returnable plastic keg) to send beer to the US. No point shipping all that air back so these 'one way' kegs are ideal.

David

 

[pharmaboy]

haha, love this thread, those that are so certain that it is illegal to be in the possession of a keg from CUB etc, would easily be able to point to a case where someone has been charged and convicted of such an offense.

If you buy a keg from a hotel and you dont sign an agreement for the purchase with relevant, "keg is owned by the brewery and must be returned clause", then there is no obligation between you and the brewery nor the retailer. Its a different case entirely if the keg you have in your possession was knicked out of the carpark of a hotel.

Receiving stolen goods is another area, but simply printing something on an item doesnt automatically confer a crime on anyone in possesion of it. Think of it this way, if the local milkbar gives you a milk crate to take home your goods, and you leave it in the garage, the retailer is the one guilty of a breach of contract or theft, not you - if the dairy company sees it, and says its theirs, you give it back, but you had no way of returning it, nor did you have a contract with them to be breached - now if the 'borrower' is dumb enough to say they knew it was 'stolen' - well, there you go.

As has been said, possesion is 9/10's, ie its the responsibilty of the alleged owner to prove ownership is order to get it back, and prove "intent" to recieve, plus prove theft - all too much - anyone having stuff stolen from their house and then finding it in a pawn shop will be well aware of the realities of how difficult this is.

and ring the micro brewery to return them anyway..

 

[Lactobacillus]

haha, love this thread, those that are so certain that it is illegal to be in the possession of a keg from CUB etc, would easily be able to point to a case where someone has been charged and convicted of such an offense.

It is also illegal, under Australian Communications Authority (ACA) regulations, for your computers modem to pick up on the first ring. Can't easily point to a case where someone has been charged and convicted of it, even though it seems to happen often... still illegal, though.

 

[Gulf Brewery]

No one stole the keg. It was purchased legally, containing the product.

The retailer who sold the product was offered the empty keg but refused to take it.

So, I would believe the ownership belongs to the purchaser.

Whistlingjack

It is understood implicitly, that when any brewery supplies beer to a hotel, that they are paying for the contents, not the keg and that the keg remains the property of the brewery. I believe that the sale of the beer to the retailer would have the same conditions and the retailer is responsible for the return of the keg.

Pedro
PS Fair warning - if anyone "acquires" a Gulf Brewery keg, you do not own it, it belongs to the brewery.

 

[Whistlingjack]

Just playing "devil's advocate" here.

I think that the keg should be returned, but having made the effort without success, the guy must be be thinking they don't want it. If the micro is concerned about the effect the loss of this keg will have on the bottom line, then they should keep track of them.

The sale of goods for money I think is the same as entering a contract. The supplier gave the purchaser the implication, by not taking back the keg, that its cost was included in the price.

Was there any notion of a deposit or were any instructions for the return of the keg given at the time of purchase?