Keg King Elements

[QldKev]

Had a keg king element blow on me yesterday during a brew. It was towards the end of the boil and I was about 10m away when it happened. Pretty scary. My GFCI tripped but there was quite a loud bang and some smoke from the element. Basically the insulation seems to have melted just where it joins the body of the element and let the neutral and live wires touch. I had already retired an older keg king element because I could see some fraying at the same point, but this one was bought about a year back and I was careful to inspect it before each brew day. There was no sign of any fraying before this happened, and it has only seen about 15 brews. Disappointing.

Hope no one gets hurt by these elements

Here's a website worth looking into, may some someone from being hurt.
http://www.productsafety.gov.au/content/in...AnUnsafeProduct

It would mean you would probably need to hang onto the element for them to inspect, so you won't be able to swap it over for a replacement. But do you really want another with these issues?

 

[Parks]

Hope no one gets hurt by these elements

Here's a website worth looking into, may some someone from being hurt.
http://www.productsafety.gov.au/content/in...AnUnsafeProduct

It would mean you would probably need to hang onto the element for them to inspect, so you won't be able to swap it over for a replacement. But do you really want another with these issues?

This whole thing has become really disturbing. It is obviously not isolated to one or two units.

If I were selling these and someone was seriously hurt or even killed how could I live with myself...

 

[sean_0]

It would mean you would probably need to hang onto the element for them to inspect, so you won't be able to swap it over for a replacement. But do you really want another with these issues?

No, I certainly don't want another one. I'm done with these elements. I've only had two and both were faulty and had the same fault, one I caught in time, the other happened with no outward signs of any problem and resulted in a potentially dangerous blowout.

 

[QldKev]

Just got sent a pic of my new element, showing it all mounted up neatly.





QldKev

 

[kjparker]

Just p[oking around on Uxcell, found this one which looks intersting as well! Could be good for a keggle setup

http://www.uxcell.com/stainless-steel-elec...w-p-193546.html

 

[dicko]

Hi all,

This has been an interesting read.
I have one of these elements in my HLT which with my operation only heats to 78deg c.

Has anyone had a problem using this element for the lower temperature HLT?

If my element stuffs up I am concerned about the large hole I drilled in the HLT to accomodate the thing.

It is dissapointing with the lack of response from KK.

Cheers

 

[QldKev]

Hi all,

This has been an interesting read.
I have one of these elements in my HLT which with my operation only heats to 78deg c.

Has anyone had a problem using this element for the lower temperature HLT?

If my element stuffs up I am concerned about the large hole I drilled in the HLT to accomodate the thing.

It is dissapointing with the lack of response from KK.

Cheers

Both my elements that have let me down, were only ever used in the HLT. But neither were the issue of melting cords (yet)

QldKev

 

[dicko]

Both my elements that have let me down, were only ever used in the HLT. But neither were the issue of melting cords (yet)

QldKev

That doesnt sound good Kev, so, how did you block up the hole in the HLT where the KK element fitted..??

 

[QldKev]

That doesnt sound good Kev, so, how did you block up the hole in the HLT where the KK element fitted..??

Luckily the second one was only the rust issue at the start of this thread, so I paid to get it treated properly and so far no more rust, just some pits from how deep the foreign material was. When they fail (cause going by the stats they will) and being just for heating a HLT, I will swap them out for $8 kettle elements which require a larger hole.

I should have just gone for the kettle elements from day dot. We don't really need much better in the HLT or a HERMS as it's not touching wort. There are a lot of kettle element powered systems that have been used for several years out there. 2 x $8 = $16 for kettle element, OR 2 x $40 = $80 for unreliable crap... I think I made the wrong choice.

QldKev

 

[dicko]

OR 2 x $40 = $80 for unreliable crap... I think I made the wrong choice.

QldKev

It appears that there is lot of usthat may have made that same choice.

Now I will be inspecting mine and getting one of those elements that you have used.

Thanks for the info,

Cheers

 

[fcmcg]

I mentioned to Kee , when I was in his shop a couple if weeks ago that I was surprised he had not got on AHB to defend himself or his business . He said he would have a look...
I also happened to be speaking to someone involved in a lhbs and they have stated that they have returned that much product to keg king that wasn't up to scratch , that it was almost at the point where the boss was considering not stocking the products BUT because so many of us brewers are tight wadds, and wouldn't buy the quality expensive stuff, they felt like they were stuck between a rock and a hard place...

 

[dicko]

I mentioned to Kee , when I was in his shop a couple if weeks ago that I was surprised he had not got on AHB to defend himself or his business . He said he would have a look...
I also happened to be speaking to someone involved in a lhbs and they have stated that they have returned that much product to keg king that wasn't up to scratch , that it was almost at the point where the boss was considering not stocking the products BUT because so many of us brewers are tight wadds, and wouldn't buy the quality expensive stuff, they felt like they were stuck between a rock and a hard place...

Well that's an unusual statement.

Maybe if the LHBS offered an option then we would have a choice.
In any case, the way I see it is that most brewing gear comes out of China these days anyway.
Of course this does not in any way give licence to a supplier to shirk his obligations.
The fact is - will the faulty units be replaced with units that are fit for purpose??

Cheers

 

[Wolfy]

It is dissapointing with the lack of response from KK.

This has been said numerous times in this thread, and since I intend to purchase these elements from Keg King and I also ran the grain Bulk Buy there, I did mention the concerns to Kee.
Without intending to inflame the issue, or speak for anyone but myself, in this instance the warranty is covered by the retailer, not the wholesaler, so there is no reason to expect a pubic response from the wholesaler, or anything but a direct response to the purchaser from the retailer. But there is - IMHO - a whole lot of reasons why the retailer and wholesaler would probably want to sort the matter out quietly with the purchaser, which by posting on public forum makes impossible. As a consequence, I cannot imagine that either the wholesaler or retailer have anything to gain from posting here - which is probably why they have not.

As a consumer and potential purchaser of these elements I am concerned that what appears to be a warranty issue was not covered with a replacement (at least at the time the first post was made) but given the reputation of the retailer where it was purchased from, I assume that they have since communicated with QldKev the reason for this or offered a replacement.

 

[glenwal]

<snip>there is no reason to expect a pubic response from the wholesaler, or anything but a direct response to the purchaser from the retailer. <snip>
what appears to be a warranty issue was not covered with a replacement <snip>

The problem though, from what i have read in this thread, doesn't appear to be restricted to a single unit not being covered by warranty, but instead appears to be a manuafacturing/design defect in the units in general. And the real issue being that this defect then causes the item to be unsafe.

Whist it is true that it is the retailers responsibility to handle warranty claims, this seems more like a case where the supplier should be issuing a recall on the product completely.

Disclamer: I don't own one of these units, so cant comment personally on the quality. I have been watching this thread with alot of interest though as this is something I am likely to look at purchacing in the not to distant future when I upgrade my brew rig.


PS: Sorry to cut down your quote so much - not trying to take you out of context, but mearly to respond to these specific points.

 

[fcmcg]

Well that's an unusual statement.

Maybe if the LHBS offered an option then we would have a choice.
In any case, the way I see it is that most brewing gear comes out of China these days anyway.
Of course this does not in any way give licence to a supplier to shirk his obligations.
The fact is - will the faulty units be replaced with units that are fit for purpose??

Cheers

What I should have said was , when compared to products that come from places like Andale that are very expensive but quality...
I also should have made it clearer I assumed that they are finding it difficult to find quality and suitable product , out of china that is good quality

 

[bonj]

Warranties are in place to protect the consumer from faulty products. The manufacturer (where the product is manufactured overseas, the importer is deemed by law to be the manufacturer for warranty purposes) is responsible for warranties. The manufacturer may have a deal in place with retailers for them to be able to handle warranty claims, but in the event that the product was purchased either directly from the manufacturer, or the original retailer no longer exists, or the retailer is no longer taking warranty claims, then the manufacturer is responsible for warranty claims.

If the manufacturer (or importer) is not honouring the warranties, and it really is as widespread as it seems, I can see either an Office of Fair Trading/ACCC claim, or a class action lawsuit being successful against the manufacturer (or importer) in this case. It might be worth all parties having a read of the Competition and Consumer Act (2010) (new version of the Trade Practices Act(1974))

edit: multiple spelling mistakes

 

[glenwal]

The manufacturer <snip> is responsible for warranties.

from here


Retailer ResponsibilityIt is the retailer who has the obligation to honour the

statutory warranty. The retailer cannot legally require that

the customer contact the manufacturer.

 

[bonj]

Contacting the ACCC sounds like the best option. State ministers (Office of Fair Trading) are included in the following, but they only apply to their state. Commonwealth Ministers' actions apply to the whole country.

122  Compulsory recall of consumer goods



			 (1)  A responsible Minister may, by written notice published on the internet, issue a recall notice for consumer goods of a particular kind if:



					 (a)  a person, in trade or commerce, supplies consumer goods of that kind; and



					 (b)  any of the following applies:



							  (i)  it appears to the responsible Minister that such goods will or may cause injury to any person;



							 (ii)  it appears to the responsible Minister that a reasonably foreseeable use (including a misuse) of such goods will or may cause injury to any person;



							(iii) a safety standard for such goods is in force and the goods do not comply with the standard;



							(iv)  an interim ban, or a permanent ban, on such goods is in force; and



					 (c)  it appears to the responsible Minister that one or more suppliers of such goods have not taken satisfactory action to prevent those goods causing injury to any person.



			 (2)  It is not necessary for the purposes of subsection (1)(c) for the responsible Minister to know the identities of any of the suppliers of the consumer goods of that kind.



			 (3)  A recall notice for consumer goods may be issued under subsection (1) even if the consumer goods have become fixtures since the time they were supplied.

 

[JaseH]

I was under the impression that KK had been honoring the warranty for those that the wiring had failed. It was just QldKevs rusty element that they unfortunately refused to replace?

If so then why all the talk about ACCC and Office of Fair Trading? I think this is being blown out of proportion a little.

Sure enough there may be some quality issues that needs to be addressed. But when you pay $40 for a plug and play element its obvious your not getting something made by a be-spectacled german bloke wearing a white lab coat with Bosch embroidered on his pocket.

 

[QldKev]

This has been said numerous times in this thread, and since I intend to purchase these elements from Keg King and I also ran the grain Bulk Buy there, I did mention the concerns to Kee.
Without intending to inflame the issue, or speak for anyone but myself, in this instance the warranty is covered by the retailer, not the wholesaler, so there is no reason to expect a pubic response from the wholesaler, or anything but a direct response to the purchaser from the retailer. But there is - IMHO - a whole lot of reasons why the retailer and wholesaler would probably want to sort the matter out quietly with the purchaser, which by posting on public forum makes impossible. As a consequence, I cannot imagine that either the wholesaler or retailer have anything to gain from posting here - which is probably why they have not.

As a consumer and potential purchaser of these elements I am concerned that what appears to be a warranty issue was not covered with a replacement (at least at the time the first post was made) but given the reputation of the retailer where it was purchased from, I assume that they have since communicated with QldKev the reason for this or offered a replacement.

I have already posted most details in this thread, but to clarify and add some detail

I did contact the retailer, who was happy to replace the unit.
The retailer contacted the wholesaler (I was cc'd on the emails) to request it is ok to replace the unit without me needing to return the defective unit, due to me needing to foot the cost of post in both directions. ($40 unit costing me basically $30 in post to exchange it)
The wholesaler claimed the damage was caused by me over heating the unit out of water therefore he did not think it was a valid warranty claim. "If the elements are heated excessively (ie boiled dry) it will remove the pacification in the stainless which is what looks like has happened on that particular unit." and that I should re pickle it myself.

I assured the wholesaler this product has never been switched on out of water, that there was no discolouration of the stainless or plastics on the product to suggest this. A couple of emails later I also inform them of my field related trade background, and explained why I believed a pacification process has not been perform.
"With the depth of the corrosion, I believe it is cause by contact with ions in the manufacturing and then insufficient/lack of a proper pacification process. Have a look at the depth and also pattern of the corrosion to see what I mean." and I added "the process is to use an acid which will remove any possible contaminants, both external and localized from the chromium depleted layers. Following this it aids in the forming the protective layer."

The outcome was I needed to fix the pacification issue myself at my expense, which I have now done.

I informed both the retailer and wholesaler on this thread, and at no stage have I request either party to respond in this thread.

Now it seems that at least another one has commenced rusting.

QldKev