Keg King Elements

[b0neski]

The cord is 1.5mm2 cross sectional area which is 100% suitable for 10 amp continuous..... well closer to 9 amp at 2200 watts.

You'll find that inside that white thing is filled with epoxy resin (Arildite) which is only good for about 60 degrees before it starts deforming. So once the glue gets too hot and the insulation gets to hot it all starts to shimmy apart, then eventually when the internal insulation breaks down, you get something like this:

 

[Filby]

Its interesting that my two elemtens are 2.5mm2 conductors and its not the wire that's failing but the brass crimp connectors used to connect the copper conductors to the element wires. The crimps are either not rated to 2200w, the crimp section is too small creating a hot spot or there is mild arcing occurring in the crimp. Both elements have failed at the crimp, not the cable itself

Got a replacement element from KK a few weeks but havent had a chance to run it yet. If this issue is solve these elements would be the dogs danglies!


Fil

 

[Jay Cee]

Not that I'm upgrading my kettle anytime soon, but this was a timely thread. Had planned to drop about $1200 on a keg system and other odds & sods from Keg King later in the year, but based on the comments in this thread, I'll be looking elsewhere for the gear. Probably local, so I can deal face to face should any warranty issues arise.

 

[kjparker]

Not that I'm upgrading my kettle anytime soon, but this was a timely thread. Had planned to drop about $1200 on a keg system and other odds & sods from Keg King later in the year, but based on the comments in this thread, I'll be looking elsewhere for the gear. Probably local, so I can deal face to face should any warranty issues arise.

I think you'll find that as a whole people have no problem with keg king's products.

These elements are really the main product people have issue with

 

[QldKev]

Often, you just get what you pay for, cheap products.

 

[spog]

+1 cheers...... spog........quote name='b0neski' date='Jun 4 2012, 08:54 PM' post='920484']
Well if posting those emails was illegal then mods should remove the post.

All I was trying to highlight here was the reason why these things have been going "bang".

That is all.
[/quote]

 

[Wolfman]

I think you'll find that as a whole people have no problem with keg king's products.

These elements are really the main product people have issue with

I've had a hell of a time with the grain mill I bought from them!

 

[QldKev]

The cord is 1.5mm2 cross sectional area which is 100% suitable for 10 amp continuous..... well closer to 9 amp at 2200 watts.

You'll find that inside that white thing is filled with epoxy resin (Arildite) which is only good for about 60 degrees before it starts deforming. So once the glue gets too hot and the insulation gets to hot it all starts to shimmy apart, then eventually when the internal insulation breaks down, you get something like this:

Ouch, that looks scary. 240v waiting to kill you.

QldKev

 

[Mountain Steve]

Hi all,
Just registered today and sorry to introduce myself in such a way but I have been a keen reader of the forums and have enjoyed much helpful and collegial info from you guys.

I have had a long read of this thread because I too am now on my 2nd burn-out of a KK heater.

About a month ago my first unit's wiring melted. I phoned KK and mentioned my problem (same wiring burn as mentioned previously) they said to post back my burnt one for replacement and that there had been some issues with the terminals in a batch sold earlier in the year (They were very understanding and happy to help) ... I posted mine and after a week later still no reply. I emailed and their reply was that my return had not arrived. I emailed back my disappointment and the next day Kee emailed saying a replacement would be sent regardless and that my return was probably held up in the post (I did send it standard parcel, like Kev, I didn't want to invest too much in what was a dud!) I was impressed with Kee's service.

The new unit arrived in a couple of days and 2 runs went very well. I had fortified the wire with insulation tape to avoid the sagging issues described in this thread... Today the new unit **** itself in a major way with smoke and melting stuff everywhere! I consider myself pretty lucky... from reading here it sounds as though it could have been worse.

I'll be phoning Kee tomorrow to express my disappointment (again) and see what he has to say. Like many in this thread, I'm happy with KK's service and most products... I just wish this particular one was better!!!

Just thought I'd share my experience. Here's hoping for 3rd time lucky!

Cheers
Steve

PS: Thanks for all the alternate element ideas! Keep up the good work.

 

[Logman]

Is this problem only with the one where the cord is part of the element? I notice there is a newer model that has no cord attached to the element, but rather a socket and a computer style cord plugs into the back of them. Has anyone had an issue with the new one?

 

[Filby]

The units with the female plug and no cord are older ones that were replaced with the corded ones.

Fil

 

[Parks]

The units with the female plug and no cord are older ones that were replaced with the corded ones.

Fil

Does anyone know why they did this? It makes no logical sense to me.

I would think all the overheating issues would go away, unless you need to have a special heat rated cord (too much risk of people simply using a computer cord with no real heat requirement).

 

[NickB]

I have three of these elements, none have blown as yet. One melted slightly before I secured the wiring as per a previous post of mine. No issues so far, but still a slight plastic smell.

Kettle/IEC cords really aren't designed to be run at the full 10A for more than a few mins at a time, as they are something tinly like .75mm2 wiring. The problem with the cords attached to these elements is the same - the insulation breaks down after extended periods of heating, causing a short inside the cord or the contacts of the element.

I have plans to hard-wire mine in a more suitable gauge wire when I get around to it. Will post pics in a how-to when I do.

Cheers

 

[Logman]

I have plans to hard-wire mine in a more suitable gauge wire when I get around to it. Will post pics in a how-to when I do.

That would be great, cool. Problem for me is that I don't hang around in the garage for most of the two hours my kettle runs. I rigged up a solution to take the weight of the cord after a warranty replacement, but would rather have it wired properly or buy something else if need be...

 

[NickB]

Well just to refresh, this is what I did to mine...




Cheers

 

[Logman]

Here's my effort, split a piece of PVC and supported the cord with ties off's like yours. I think I went the long way <_<

 

[Mountain Steve]

Hi All,
Phoned Keg King and spoke to Ari. He completely understood my problem (burnt out wires) and immediately offered to post out a second replacement. No return required on the faulty one. He also mentioned they would have a new batch of (better?) elements in a month or so... I added that I, like many others, would happily pay more $ for a more reliable unit in the future.
I sent him a photo to show the problem:
He emailed back about an hour later saying he would post one from current stock today.
Third time lucky?
Cheers
Steve

 

[JaseH]

Personally, I dont know why they persevere with the pre-wired cord? Although I've been happy with mine so far, I'd be more comfortable with it if it just came with terminals to attach your own wiring to the unit, like most of the other options available. They could then probably sell it a few bucks cheaper making it more attractive over the other options, eliminate the wiring problems and make it more serviceable in the process(eg. easy to replace/inspect the wiring).

I realise they are probably trying to target the plug'n'play market but it doesnt appear to be working out too well. Maybe provide a "wiring kit" as an optional extra?

 

[Maheel]

Personally, I dont know why they persevere with the pre-wired cord? Although I've been happy with mine so far, I'd be more comfortable with it if it just came with terminals to attach your own wiring to the unit, like most of the other options available. They could then probably sell it a few bucks cheaper making it more attractive over the other options, eliminate the wiring problems and make it more serviceable in the process(eg. easy to replace/inspect the wiring).

I realise they are probably trying to target the plug'n'play market but it doesnt appear to be working out too well. Maybe provide a "wiring kit" as an optional extra?

if your going a wire your own your better off with a 1" screw in type i reckon from other sources

 

[Logman]

if your going a wire your own your better off with a 1" screw in type i reckon from other sources

Hey Maheel,
I saw your picture a couple of pages yesterday, getting interested in one of these for my HLT. Did the element come with the backing nut? Did you seal it with a silicone o-ring and is that supplied?

 

[Sainter1775]

Bugger i wish i had read this thread prior to buying the KK element for Craftbrewer....Epic Fail. Question why would Craftbrewer sell these units if so much has been written on them....as a rule I find that craftbrewer allways sells quality kit with good advice?


-> insert / bang head against desk

:blink:

 

[Logman]

The other PITA is the 32mm hole already drilled into the HLT, most of the better quality elements seem to require a smaller hole - any 32mm or larger alternatives been found yet?

 

[kjparker]

The other PITA is the 32mm hole already drilled into the HLT, most of the better quality elements seem to require a smaller hole - any 32mm or larger alternatives been found yet?

I think you'll find that a 1"bsp element will go in the hole. Just need to get a back nut for it

 

[Logman]

I think you'll find that a 1"bsp element will go in the hole. Just need to get a back nut for it

Oh ok thanks, got it into my head they needed a smaller hole.

 

[joshuahardie]

Has anyone had experience with these elements?

http://www.ibrew.com.au/products/heating-element-2400w

 

[QldKev]

Has anyone had experience with these elements?

http://www.ibrew.com.au/products/heating-element-2400w

Hard to tell sizing from the pic, but I think the heat density may be too high for wort, would be ok for HLT or HERMS but for water there are plenty of cheaper solutions.

QldKev

 

[joshuahardie]

Kev,

You might have to explain the heat density thing to me.

My over the side element blew up, in much the same way these KK ones are. So I am looking for a plug and play replacement, and I am not too confident wiring up some of the units in this thread.

Cheers
Josh

 

[QldKev]

Kev,

You might have to explain the heat density thing to me.

My over the side element blew up, in much the same way these KK ones are. So I am looking for a plug and play replacement, and I am not too confident wiring up some of the units in this thread.

Cheers
Josh

Heat density is how much heating the element has per a given surface area, ie. how much power against the size of the element. So we can use watts per mm2 or watts per m2. If you look at a typical kettle element for the power output there is a very small contact area. This is ok for water, but not for our wort. The smaller the are per watt, the more heat output for the area hence it gets hotter and scorches the wort onto itself, either caramelising the wort or burning itself out.

That element has 2400w but the contact area of the element seems small, but if we had with some sizes it may actually be a good size element.

2kw element discussed above has a heat density as follows.
Approx 600mm long overall.
Tube is 10mm diameter

So to get circ we need Pi D = 3.14 x 10 = 31.4mm
31.4mm x 600mm = 18840mm2

so for the 2kw, we have 2000 / 18840 = 0.1w per mm2, which is towards the maximum you want

If you get the sizing of the element part itself and work out the mm2, if it totals the same or more mm2 than 18,840 you should be ok.

 

[joshuahardie]

Mate,
That is an awesome response. Makes perfect sense.

I owe you a beer for that one.

 

[thebigwilk]

I know the keg king elements had lots of issues originally. I'm only worried about the newer type with the length of cable from the base before you plug in the cord.

I purchased two, one died due to water leaking into it on it's first use. Took a while but I did get a replacement sent out. The replacement (along with the other good one) has only been used in my HLT. The replacement one after just 3 brews is rusting! The other element shows no signs of rust, as you would expect from a s/s element. To me it looks like someone has hit it with a buffer or emery that has been used on mild steel. I sent Craftbrewer an email to see if this is covered under warranty on the 5 April, but no response yet.

View attachment 53658

View attachment 53659


Are other people still having issues or have I just been unlucky?


QldKev

No rust on my (dodgy smoking connector) element i dont think it had a chance its only a few months old, but i will say one of my barbed threaded fitting is rusting like a bastard its supposed to be 304 stainless? quality control must have had the day off in china when they slipped this ones through the door.