Keg King Elements

[Ross]

I've tried to keep out of this as it was really an issue for Keg king to reply to, but as he's chosen not to at this stage & with the usual suspects getting on their high horses I'll set the record straight from our perspective...

Kev had a faulty element that he purchased from us, Keg king happily replaced it with the latest model (which supposedly has the wiring issue sorted) without him having to return the broken unit.
The replacement unit unfortunately had some rust marks that Kev was obviously not happy with. They appear to have been caused by the unit not being passivated properly.
Keg King were not happy to replace this element for a second time without it being returned, as the rust could be easily fixed. Kev was offered the choice to return to me for replacement or Keg King. He did not want to do this as the cost of postage was greater than the cost of getting it passivated himself (which I believe he has now done). What inflamed the situation were Keg Kings comments inferring that Kev had damaged the unit & hence the standoff.

Keg king claims the latest model has all the previous issues fixed. With a 3 year warranty you can buy with confidence that it will be replaced if there's a problem. We've sold hundreds & I guess Keg King would have sold thousands. We've had approx a dozen returned & all have been replaced without question. Whether he should have recalled the early elements, is subject to opinion & I guess the jury is still out on that one.

Regards

Ross
CraftBrewer

Edit: Kev replied while i was typing, but i'll leave my response here as it basically confirms Kevs post & adds a little more detail.

 

[QldKev]

I was under the impression that KK had been honoring the warranty for those that the wiring had failed. It was just QldKevs rusty element that they unfortunately refused to replace?

If so then why all the talk about ACCC and Office of Fair Trading? I think this is being blown out of proportion a little.

Sure enough there may be some quality issues that needs to be addressed. But when you pay $40 for a plug and play element its obvious your not getting something made by a be-spectacled german bloke wearing a white lab coat with Bosch embroidered on his pocket.

ref http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=906428
posted same time as your post was, 240v powered items melting their wiring / housing does seem like a dangerous item to me.


QldKev

 

[QldKev]

I've tried to keep out of this as it was really an issue for Keg king to reply to, but as he's chosen not to at this stage & with the usual suspects getting on their high horses I'll set the record straight from our perspective...

Kev had a faulty element that he purchased from us, Keg king happily replaced it with the latest model (which supposedly has the wiring issue sorted) without him having to return the broken unit.
The replacement unit unfortunately had some rust marks that Kev was obviously not happy with. They appear to have been caused by the unit not being passivated properly.
Keg King were not happy to replace this element for a second time without it being returned, as the rust could be easily fixed. Kev was offered the choice to return to me for replacement or Keg King. He did not want to do this as the cost of postage was greater than the cost of getting it passivated himself (which I believe he has now done). What inflamed the situation were Keg Kings comments inferring that Kev had damaged the unit & hence the standoff.

Keg king claims the latest model has all the previous issues fixed. With a 3 year warranty you can buy with confidence that it will be replaced if there's a problem. We've sold hundreds & I guess Keg King would have sold thousands. We've had approx a dozen returned & all have been replaced without question. Whether he should have recalled the early elements, is subject to opinion & I guess the jury is still out on that one.

Regards

Ross
CraftBrewer

Edit: Kev replied while i was typing, but i'll leave my response here as it basically confirms Kevs post & adds a little more detail.

I wish to clarify one item from this.

Initially you were seeking approval to replace it without me returning the defective item to help me out, but after Kee's feedback I do not recall it being offered to replace it if I returned it. You did offer to pacify it if I returned it to the shop, to which I declined as it would cost me more in post to get it there and back, than getting it done locally.

QldKev

 

[bonj]

Thanks for the clarification Ross.

I think the two issues (Kev's and the wiring) have been confused here, but I still think the wiring issue is bad enough to force a compulsory recall on the early units. You can't have people potentially getting hurt or worse.

There is no mention in Keg King sales literature about compliance.

 

[Ross]

I wish to clarify one item from this.

Initially you were seeking approval to replace it without me returning the defective item, but after Kee's feedback it was never offered to replace it if I returned it. You did offer to pacify it if I returned it to the shop, to which I declined as it would cost me more in post to get it there and back, than getting it done locally.

QldKev

Fair enough Kev, but I don't think he would question replacing if you returned, whether he directly offered to or not. Anyway, not really my place to comment on Kee's actions.

cheers Ross

 

[QldKev]

Fair enough Kev, but I don't think he would question replacing if you returned, whether he directly offered to or not. Anyway, not really my place to comment on Kee's actions.

cheers Ross

Thanks Ross, maybe I needed that point spelt out.

I will add, I have always had exceptional service from Craftbrewer and have made many purchases over they years and will continue to do so.


QldKev

 

[bigfridge]

The replacement unit unfortunately had some rust marks that Kev was obviously not happy with. They appear to have been caused by the unit not being passivated properly.
Keg King were not happy to replace this element for a second time without it being returned, as the rust could be easily fixed. Kev was offered the choice to return to me for replacement or Keg King. He did not want to do this as the cost of postage was greater than the cost of getting it passivated himself (which I believe he has now done). What inflamed the situation were Keg Kings comments inferring that Kev had damaged the unit & hence the standoff.

Stainless isn't 'stainless' if it rusts ! It will taint any food product that it comes into contact with, produce haze in the finished beer (through iron pickup) and the rust will provide a site for further corrosion. Passivation only removes the material causing the rust but leaves the pits that Kev has reported, and these will accelerate the corrosion as well.

So it is really not just a cosmetic issue - rust affects the 'fitness for purpose' as much as the electrical insuation breakdown does.

As an importer of stainless steeel products, and a qualified Metallurgist, poor welding is the most common problem that I see with cheap chinese stainless steel products. It costs a lot more to have properly qualified and trained welding personnel, careful material preparation and correct filler metal selection. Something as simple as grease near the weld site can result in Chrome Carbide precipitation which leads to local corrosion as the chrome is no longer available to form the protective layer.

But Chinese manufactures do produce a wide range of quality products at an unbeleivably low price, but it is essential that the importer/wholesaler invests a little more in product design, inspection and warranty support.

HTH
Dave

 

[QldKev]

Thanks for the clarification Ross.

I think the two issues (Kev's and the wiring) have been confused here, but I still think the wiring issue is bad enough to force a compulsory recall on the early units. You can't have people potentially getting hurt or worse.

There is no mention in Keg King sales literature about compliance.

I've got both issues potentially now

One element, the older model with wiring issues.
And the other element the new model that the food grade stainless has rust issues, and it's too soon to know if has the wiring issue.
(I initially purchased 2, and one was replaced)


I though all products sold within Australia had to comply?


QldKev

 

[bonj]

I thought all products sold within Australia had to comply?

So did I, which is why I raised it.

 

[DU99]

all electricial good's in australia have to meet a set of standards as per Standards Australia

 

[Barley Belly]

The bitter taste of poor quality lingers far longer than the initial sweetness of a cheap price.

 

[QldKev]

Stainless isn't 'stainless' if it rusts ! It will taint any food product that it comes into contact with, produce haze in the finished beer (through iron pickup) and the rust will provide a site for further corrosion. Passivation only removes the material causing the rust but leaves the pits that Kev has reported, and these will accelerate the corrosion as well.

So it is really not just a cosmetic issue - rust affects the 'fitness for purpose' as much as the electrical insuation breakdown does.

As an importer of stainless steeel products, and a qualified Metallurgist, poor welding is the most common problem that I see with cheap chinese stainless steel products. It costs a lot more to have properly qualified and trained welding personnel, careful material preparation and correct filler metal selection. Something as simple as grease near the weld site can result in Chrome Carbide precipitation which leads to local corrosion as the chrome is no longer available to form the protective layer.

But Chinese manufactures do produce a wide range of quality products at an unbeleivably low price, but it is essential that the importer/wholesaler invests a little more in product design, inspection and warranty support.

HTH
Dave

I agree, these units are sold as food grade stainless steel, which to me they do not seem to conform. With the ongoing electrical issues talked about on AHB of these units, in more than the one version, I wonder how they are getting out there if they do performing any level of QA prior to market.



QldKev

 

[sean_0]

. . . With the ongoing electrical issues talked about on AHB of these units, in more than the one version, . . .

Just for the record, I have had the same frayed/melted insulation issue with both an older (2 years) and newer (10 months) version of this element.

 

[Batz]

Hell, what a read this thread has been.

They may have sold thousands of these but I bet they won't sell one more to an AHB member, you'll had to be mad to even consider it. I personally wouldn't touch one with a 10ft hop flower, especially if it wasn't insulated.

I thank you Kev for bringing a potentially dangerous item to our attention.

batz

 

[pk.sax]

If you thought someone on a compulsary minimum wage in changdou is doing a QA to Australian standards, you gotta have something wrong with your head. The guy would probably not even be able to read English and any knowledge of Australian quality standards, if any, would be second hand information.

Besides that, welcome to warranties on products posted long distances. I refuse to buy products over the Internet above a certain value unless they are backed by a brick and mortar business, the product has excellent quality and reviews and postage in case of a claim will be trivial (compact camera etc). There are certain things you just don't expect.

Besides that, I will clarify that I'm quite appaled that they continue to sell this electrical item with zero safety instructions and no certification whatsoever. Considering the above, those certifications are designed to protect and insure the consumer from exactly that sort of ****. If you burnt down your house with that element, I'd be very surprised if your insurance makes a payment to you without a hassle. Same with any modified electrics. I'd suggest we put use and cost in context, both while buying and commenting.

 

[wombil]

Hey Guys, Been a lot of talk on this topic.I don't use one of these things but was just wondering what is wrong with fitting a hot water system element to a pot.You can get them locally, they are not expensive and last for years.Just mt 2 cents worth.
I use an old electric copper boiler made in Brisbane about 40 years ago. Goes like a bewdy. Bugger China.
wombil.

 

[Wimmig]

Besides that, I will clarify that I'm quite appaled that they continue to sell this electrical item with zero safety instructions and no certification whatsoever. Considering the above, those certifications are designed to protect and insure the consumer from exactly that sort of ****. If you burnt down your house with that element, I'd be very surprised if your insurance makes a payment to you without a hassle. Same with any modified electrics. I'd suggest we put use and cost in context, both while buying and commenting.

All it would take is 1 person to make an issue out of it with somebody like a federal safety body and i'm sure things would change quick.

 

[Batz]

Hey Guys, Been a lot of talk on this topic.I don't use one of these things but was just wondering what is wrong with fitting a hot water system element to a pot.You can get them locally, they are not expensive and last for years.Just mt 2 cents worth.
I use an old electric copper boiler made in Brisbane about 40 years ago. Goes like a bewdy. Bugger China.
wombil.

That's what I had wombil, tough azz. Well it wasn't 40 years old, I bought it new but I bet it's still going stong hey Campbell?

 

[QldKev]

Hey Guys, Been a lot of talk on this topic.I don't use one of these things but was just wondering what is wrong with fitting a hot water system element to a pot.You can get them locally, they are not expensive and last for years.Just mt 2 cents worth.
I use an old electric copper boiler made in Brisbane about 40 years ago. Goes like a bewdy. Bugger China.
wombil.

For a HLT or Hx no problems. Wished I had gone that way now. I was told not to use them into the kettle due to the wort sticking to the element, so I'm just playing around trying to find something good for the kettle.

QldKev

 

[QldKev]

A few pics of the s/s element getting hooked up, as done by our electricians.

Dril the diecast box to suit the elemeent.
- When you have the pilot holes for the element put it against the pot and drill the pilot holes through.
- Enlarge the element holes to suit the element.
- Drill and mount the power cable using a cable gland



Drill the pot to suit the element,



Mount up the box, using the element to hold it agains the pot. Use heat rated spaces on the sides of the dicast box to hold it flat against the curve of the pot. My electrician said you could use a bead of heat rated silicone down each side and allow it to set before disturbing it.



With the box mounted using the element you can commence wiring.



Close up the diacast box and check out the neat looking setup



QldKev