Keg King Elements

[QldKev]

Taken from here. It looks like a continuing saga for the elements burning out including the new version.

Just letting everybody know that the new shipment of keg king elements are still as freaking dangerous as the last. I have read a lot of discussions about them going bang! and she no go no more , but i was assured that this new shipment of elements were safe . Take it from me dont risk it , i have used mine five times now on the sixth use white smoke started to linger out of the connector where the lead goes into the back of the element it smelt like burning rubber so i turned it off real fast like . Lucky i had a different brand of element sitting around for a rainy day well guess what keg king its pissing down and im pissed right off!!

 

[NickB]

Ok, so brewed yesterday, heated my mash and sparge water (93L total) no problems, but noticed a slight plastic smell.

Left cleanup until today (lazy me) and just started heating my PBW water and BANG. Smoke, noise. Luckily I have the brewery circuit on an RCD. Obviously it tripped.

I'm not sure wether to bother organizing a replacement under warranty as the exact same issue WILL happen going on everyone's experience. Will see what the damage is to the element once I'm cleaned up, and see if I can re-wire with suitable cable.

Pissed off as are many others. Pathetic quality product. Has really made me shy away from any Keg King products until something is done.

Just glad noone was hurt.

Cheers

 

[rotten]

I thought I was the only one until reading this thread. I'm glad no-one was hurt here too, circuit breaker tripped. I won't be replacing mine, life is too short to short it.

 

[zxhoon]

I can't believe people are still using these elements with a "wait and see what happens" attitude.
If you run one, you are an idiot IMO, knowing full well there is a MAJOR problem with these things and continuing to use them is playing Russian roulette!!
An RCD won't protect you if you get hooked up between the active and neutral.
Not to mention how many of these are running on a non-RCD protected outlet.

Time to make a call to Energy Safe I think, these things are going to kill someone soon.

 

[Wolfy]

An RCD won't protect you if you get hooked up between the active and neutral.

How would that happen in this kind-of scenario?

 

[glenwal]

How would that happen in this kind-of scenario?

You take the leads that have "burnt" off, hold them, and have someone else flick the breaker back on whilst wearning rubber soled shoes and not touching anything else to ensure you aren't earthed in any way.


PS: I do agree with the gist of his post though.

 

[NickB]

Yep, little chance of this happening as the insulation covers the internal cables. The short is between active and earth inside the outer sheath due to insulation breakdown from overheating....

Cheers

 

[booargy]

1" bsp element and lock nut for replacement. keg king elements are useful as no enclosure is needed. I think that these are more suited to extracting ethanol.

 

[NickB]

Aren't the Keg King elements 32mm, therefore 1.25"?

Cheers

 

[Parks]

Aren't the Keg King elements 32mm, therefore 1.25"?

Cheers

32mm is the hole size. Not sure if they talk about hole size or pipe size with these. I think generally 1" BSP will have a hole size of about 32mm (makes sense if the pipe is 3mm thick adding 6mm to the diameter)

 

[booargy]

I used and 1" bsp nipple through a kegking element hole to connect a pump up. 32mm OD

 

[NickB]

OK, cool, cheers guys!

 

[zxhoon]

How would that happen in this kind-of scenario?

this kind of scenario? Insulation breaking down, live conductors at mains potential touching earth/neutral (so far), how do people get electrocuted in any scenario??

You take the leads that have "burnt" off, hold them, and have someone else flick the breaker back on whilst wearning rubber soled shoes and not touching anything else to ensure you aren't earthed in any way.

PS: I do agree with the gist of his post though.

you assume the breaker has tripped in the first place, rubber soled shoes will not save you, I have been electrocuted on an earth leakage protected outlet (while wearing rubber soled shoes), reason for my post, sure it wasn't across my chest and I was lucky but it still wasn't fun.


you people seem to have this attitude of "it's not that bad" or "she'll be right"

no it's not alright and it is that bad

 

[MaltyHops]

this kind of scenario? Insulation breaking down, live conductors at mains potential touching earth/neutral (so far), how do people get electrocuted in any scenario??
...

Provided an RCD is working properly, it should detect the start of
an electrocution situation where current is passing through the RCD
one way but not coming back through the RCD (going through
someone to earth via some other way) - the RCD works by detecting
the imbalance and cuts off asap.

Agree that if all the current passed through a person and then back
through the rcd, it would not detect the imbalance and hence not
activate. Hopefully this condition cannot arise.

 

[NickB]

Sorry zxhoon, but NOBODY is saying that this is a good situation to have. Like anything in your brewery you build yourself, you take a calculated risk IF you don't get them checked out by a qualified professional. In the case of these elements, they are obviously not fit for purpose, and if you deem it too dangerous to continue using them, then DON'T USE THEM.

I personally know (I'm an apprentice electrician) that all of my brew rig is properly earthed, and that the circuit I use is RCD protected. Because the element wiring is not exposed, there is only a very minimal chance of me inadvertently making contact with both the active and neutral conductors at the same time (a calculated risk that I'm willing to take) therefore, until the two remaining elements I have in use die, I will continue to use them. They will then be replaced with a suitable replacement, OR I will re-wire them with the correct gauge cable to ensure their safe operation.

Cheers

EDIT: Also, GlenW's reply above about electrocution and rubber soled shoes - I believe he was referring to the fact that the rubber soled shoes would not provide a path to earth, and that in that particular (albeit ridiculous) situation, you WOULD get electrocuted and not trip the RCD.

 

[rotten]

you people seem to have this attitude of "it's not that bad" or "she'll be right"

no it's not alright and it is that bad

I take offence to this as you posted after me. I bought this ******* thing nearly 12 months ago after researching and not finding any issues. Mine went about 5 months ago after only a few brews and I'm not replacing it due to the safety concerns because I think it is that bad.

AFAIC craftbrewer and keg king and whoever else is selling these should stop doing so.

My circuit breaker did it's job, that doesn't mean I went out of my way to test it.

 

[Wolfy]

this kind of scenario? Insulation breaking down, live conductors at mains potential touching earth/neutral (so far), how do people get electrocuted in any scenario??
...
you assume the breaker has tripped in the first place, rubber soled shoes will not save you, I have been electrocuted on an earth leakage protected outlet (while wearing rubber soled shoes), reason for my post, sure it wasn't across my chest and I was lucky but it still wasn't fun.

I don't assume anything and my question was one from genuine interest because I'm not a sparky or qualified electrician but DO have some of these elements.

The situation you were so flippant about just now: "live conductors at mains potential touching earth/neutral (so far), how do people get electrocuted in any scenario??" would - as far was I was aware - trip an RCD switch.

However, in your previous post you said this:

An RCD won't protect you if you get hooked up between the active and neutral.

and also mentioned you were "electrocuted on an earth leakage protected outlet", so the question is:
How would that happen in this kind-of scenario?

If it is as unlikely to occur as Glen W pointed out, then I'm happy to take that risk and continue to use them, but if you think the risk of an active-neutral-electruction (without being grounded and tripping the RCD) is higher, then please explain how that could happen, with this particular product.

 

[Cocko]

WOW!

Great thread.

Thanks to all.

Cheers

 

[zxhoon]

I take offence to this as you posted after me. I bought this ******* thing nearly 12 months ago after researching and not finding any issues. Mine went about 5 months ago after only a few brews and I'm not replacing it due to the safety concerns because I think it is that bad.

AFAIC craftbrewer and keg king and whoever else is selling these should stop doing so.

My circuit breaker did it's job, that doesn't mean I went out of my way to test it.

rotten, I'm not sure why you take offence as you seem to have the same attitude as me!


Wolfy,
Not everyone has an RCD and nobody should rely on an RCD to save their life, various reasons - someone could touch the neutral first and then the active (as happened to myself, so presented as a load, no leakage to earth - accidents can and do happen!).

A circuit breaker is a safety device designed to trip under a fault condition, they are not designed to trip infinitely and have a rated number of trips under fault conditions (an electrician I know of tested this by repeatedly re-setting a large breaker into a dead short which was rated to do so only 4 or 5 times, on the 6th reset the breaker blew apart and the electrician received flash burns, lucky to be alive - needless to say he was sent back to school).
Each time these elements fail and your breaker trips, the breaker is put under considerable stress.

As far as we know so far they have blown and tripped the protection, however there is the potential that while the insulation is breaking down the active and neutral could be exposed individually and not to each other at which point someone could be electrocuted.

If you looked at a dozen houses and checked all of their power outlets I would bet money on finding one outlet that is not wired correctly, neutral connected to the earth, neutral and active swapped around, etc.
People do silly things - DIY by a previous owner, etc.
Assuming that an installation is 100% is a big mistake to make.

NickB -" there is only a very minimal chance of me inadvertently making contact with both the active and neutral conductors at the same time (a calculated risk that I'm willing to take)" but there is a chance, that is what I am trying to express to people here that may not understand the risk they are taking in continuing to use a faulty product.
When was the last time you tested that RCD? Not trying to be smart, just making a point, assumption is the mother of all f-ups.

MaltyHops - agreed, as above you can't always be 100% sure that the install is correct, these elements are inserted into large metal pots, which if they are not earthed properly have the potential to become live, if the resistance to earth is great enough that may not trip a standard breaker, and worst case even if an RCD is installed it may not be correctly installed, has happened before.

I'm starting to talk in circles now but I've made my point, whilst being unlikely it is a very real possibility that these elements could kill someone, if I have offended anyone that was not my intention and I apologise, I just find it hard to understand how saving some money can overcome safety.

 

[Muscovy_333]

@zxhoon
I'm listening, and i'm sure many others are as well. I am a learner when it comes to electricity so will take both sides on board.
Thanks for explaining a "possible" risk.
I err on the side of caution when it comes to 240V. Only takes one mistake when it comes to 240V...thats all i know!

 

[glenwal]

Also, for the benifit of anyone who doesn't know the difference, a circuit breaker and an RCD are two completely different things (though you often get a "combined" device).

A circuit breaker is there to protect the wiring in the house from melting and burning your house down. It offers no personal protection for an unfortunate person who touches a live wire. A circuit breaker has a specific current rating (16A for a general household power circuit), and if more current is drawn through it than that (either from overloading or from a short) it will trip.

An RCD (residual current device), often called a saftey switch or earth leakage detector, is designed to protect people. It basically compares the current flowing in vs the current returned and a difference (leakage to earth) causes the RCD to trip. This helps prevent you from being zapped as (generally) you will complete the circuit to earth and cause the leakage. The RCD then trips in a few milliseconds, preventing your death. As staed by zxhoon - it is still possible to complete an active-neutral circuit and not be protected.

The important thing here though, is most old houses do not have RCDs (they are legally required in new houses), and will only have fuses or circuit breakers, and alot of people don't know the difference and assume that a breaker or fuse will protect them.

You should also be testing your RCDs every few months (by pressing the little test button on it - which should trip the unit if it is working correctly)

 

[bonj]

You should also be testing your RCDs every few months (by pressing the little test button on it - which should trip the unit if it is working correctly)

<joke>But what about my uptime?</joke>

 

[NickB]

UPS.

 

[bonj]

UPS.

Damn you're clever!

 

[NickB]

Just make sure you don't get hooked up between the active and neutral on the UPS though Ben...

 

[jyo]

What happened to Lethal Corpse?

 

[NickB]

Electrocuted I heard. Faulty RCD...

h34r:

 

[jyo]

:lol:

Electrocuted I heard. Faulty RCD...

h34r:

 

[spudfarmerboy]

you assume the breaker has tripped in the first place, rubber soled shoes will not save you, I have been electrocuted on an earth leakage protected outlet (while wearing rubber soled shoes), reason for my post, sure it wasn't across my chest and I was lucky but it still


[/quote]


You say you got "electrocuted" on an earth leakage protected circuit.
You must be posting from the dead.
Electrocution is DEATH by electric shock, I think you mean you got a " shock" from an earth leakage protected outlet, which is entirely possible. People think an RCD will protect them from all electric shocks, only if some current goes to earth and there is an imbalance in current flow between active and neutral, will the RCD trip.

 

[dcx3]

Hi all
I posted my fault on brew Adelaide but forgot to post here,Boneski replied and mentioned the ongoing problems with these element's.I have just finished re-reading this thread, there has been alot added since i first read of Kev's complaint's some time ago. For some reason i was under the impression that the problems had been fixed and that my element would not be affected.Maybe i should stop skimming threads or learn to read.
Well mine blew last weekend.I was just getting ready to brew and had flicked the switch to heat my water, when about 30 seconds later there was a loud POP and then a small shower of sparks that only stopped when i switched the power off.
No dramas apart from the fact that one of my Daughters follows me everywhere!!
Luckily she was on the other side of the pot when the cord gave up the ghost, if she had of been between myself and the pot she would have worn a face full of **** knows what. When the element popped it was loud enough to scare the ***** out of the pair of us! I she hadn't of been there i would of had my running shoe's on and lashed it.Luckily only my pride was hurt and now my daughter knows im a chicken ****.

I bought my element from craftbrewer and hold them responsible. They have my e-mail and they should have used it to tell me about these problems. If i hadn't been told in this thread that they where KK products i wouldnt be any the wiser.Maybe thats wrong and some people may argue that point but at some stage you should take care of your customers and just touch base to let everyone know there has been problems.
I note that craftbrewer still stocks these elements. I also note that AHB members are still using them...Dont!! Do yourself a favour and take a weekend of brewing and spend that time looking into a safer option.Let's keep this thread going and if anyone finds a better option drop it in here so we can all brew better
All the best and cheers!