Keg help

[adictv]

Hi guys
Just got myself 2 cornys, pluto gun and all the bits needed. Some my questions are
1) do i need to have a minimum length for gas line? ( im using 5mm id)
2) can i still use Napisan to clean kegs and lines?
3) is recommended length for pluto gun about 2-3m?
4) i know its recommend but do many of you use a one way valve?
Thanks guys

 

[danestead]

1) Yes. I haven't used a Pluto gun but let's assume it flows the same as a normal tap. I'd start with 4m of 5mm id line and cut it down half a metre at a time until you find a length that flows well, with acceptable foaming, for you.

2) Yes, if it isn't scented.
3) See answer 1.
4) A 1 way valve on the gas line is recommended. If you don't use one, and you back-flow beer up the gas line (it can happen), you will screw your regulator.

 

[Digga]

Question 1 was regarding gas line. You don't need a minimum length of gas just to get to you keg / splitter.

For the beer line it's all about balancing so take danesteads answer 1 and questions 3 answer.
I use flow regulators with some success. I am going to upgrade from a keg fridge that has minimal room up top to a keeper shortly and I'll go down the long line route and balance. I find that with different beers you will be stuffing around with gas pressure to keep all beers "happy" with the right carb/pour and the regulator works a treat.

Just my 2c

 

[MastersBrewery]

Having used many a pluto gun, when starting a pour pull the trigger all the way home quickly and release quickly, do it slowly and your sqirting beer and will end up with a glass of head. Start with 3m of beer line and around 80kpa, cut the line length down bit by bit till you have your desired pour.

 

[danestead]

Question 1 was regarding gas line. You don't need a minimum length of gas just to get to you keg / splitter.

For the beer line it's all about balancing so take danesteads answer 1 and questions 3 answer.
I use flow regulators with some success. I am going to upgrade from a keg fridge that has minimal room up top to a keeper shortly and I'll go down the long line route and balance. I find that with different beers you will be stuffing around with gas pressure to keep all beers "happy" with the right carb/pour and the regulator works a treat.

Just my 2c

Thanks for picking up on that!

I can't edit my post anymore; however, please treat my answer to question 1 as question 3.

 

[adictv]

Cheers guys. Just went and got some more beer line hopefully be pouring my first beer tomorrow

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Note on the Napisan its 25.7% Sodium Percabonate. that's the stuff you want. Unsure what the rest of it is.
100% Sodium Percarbonate from your local brew store can be around the same price. Or if your lucky to get in on a bulk buy its loads! cheaper than that.

 

[adictv]

Does anyone have a chart or idea of a good serving pressure after forced carb

 

[danestead]

Does anyone have a chart or idea of a good serving pressure after forced carb

Just Google carbonation calculator. Input the beer serving temperature and how many volumes of co2 you want.

2.5ish is about right for American styles and lagers etc. More towards 2.0 for pommy ales.

You should end up with something like 10-12psi (65-90ish kpa) or thereabouts.

Remember, it's a pain in the ass if you over-carb your beer.

 

[adictv]

Cheers mate ill have a look now. Im hoping not to much stuffing around to get it right but hey i can dream haha

 

[dblunn]

Also note that when you pull the pluto gun on you need to adopt a technique where you keep the front handle stationary and move the rear handle. If you pull it like a trigger (ie pull the front handle backwards) the tip of the gun will flick and could crack the side of your glass. BTDT

 

[danestead]

Cheers mate ill have a look now. Im hoping not to much stuffing around to get it right but hey i can dream haha

IIt's easy mate. If you use 10-12ish psi you can't really go wrong. If you have issues with those pressures, you likely have line length issues or you had previously over carbed your beer with a higher pressure.

Over carbed beer will generally result in a glass of foam with flat beer underneath.

 

[adictv]

So at 10psi i got flat beer and no foam

 

[quadbox]

So at 10psi i got flat beer and no foam

... you have already carbonated your beer at a much higher pressure, right? if you want to just equilibrium carbonate at 10psi you'll have to wait at least a week or two, most people use a variation or other of the ross method, at ~40psi to carbonate, then wind it down to 10psi to serve

 

[adictv]

Sorry forgot to mention i used ross method at 300kpa and left it for 3hrs. Burped the keg then set to 10psi

 

[quadbox]

Sorry forgot to mention i used ross method at 300kpa and left it for 3hrs. Burped the keg then set to 10psi

And the beer was definitely <=4C when you were carbonating?

Cause if your beer is serving without any foaming up or anything, with a reasonable flow rate, it's balanced. Anything to do with flat beer is down to the beer and its carbonation, not the serving pressure, at that point. If your serving pressure were low (or the beer overcarbed) then you'd get bubbles developing at high points in the beer line you can see, which'd lead to huge amounts of foam.

If you've the patience, leave it for a week and see if the carbonation goes up at that serving pressure. If it does, then it was undercarbed. But tbh I dont see how you could end up with FLAT beer after doing the ross method unless something went wildly wrong. Undercarbed, sure

Bear in mind a 2deg C difference when you're talking about carbonation is *massive*

 

[adictv]

The beer was cooled to 3deg C. It got the better of me so i re did the ross method. Burped and set at pouring pressure 10psi. Looking a bit better i now have what looks to be a carbed beer with foam but after 2min the beer looks flat but i have 1 inch head in glass...... oh the joys of being new to kegging haha

 

[Mr B]

Just patience mate. Even with Ross method I find it usually takes a few days to come to a nice carb. It is initially carbed, but definitely improves.

Maybe I dont do it quite right though....

 

[danestead]

Yep, patience is your friend. The set and forget method of carbonating is as simple as it gets and fool proof.

Although the Ross force carbing method is great, it can also cause issues when not done right. Over carbing is something I did a bunch of times and it is a right pain to fix. I have adjusted the 'Ross method' I use to ensure I never over carbonate. I wind the pressure up and rock back and forth etc. just as the Ross method instructs; however, I don't let the resting pressure go any higher than what my serving pressure will be, after turning the gas off and rocking until the pressure stabilises. Sorry, that was hard to explain. Hopefully below explains it better:

1) Connect co2 to keg and set 45psi/300kpa
2) Rock back and forth for set time period - Note - The more head-space in the keg, the quicker it will carb up.
3) Turn co2 off at co2 bottle.
4) Rock back and forth until the pressure on your reg reduces and stabilises.
5) If the stabilised pressure is less that your serving pressure (10psi in your case), turn the co2 bottle back on and repeat steps above again. 10 or 15 seconds at a time is best after the initial rocking.

The difference in my technique is that I stop at serving pressure, not 20-24psi/140-160kpa as in Ross' instructions. With my method you will never over carb your beer.

Your beer will end up very close to perfect carb. It will pick up that little bit of extra carb over the following few days.

Enjoy.

 

[quadbox]

*Snip*

That's my method too. When I force carb, anyway (my keezer holds up to 11 kegs so I dont usually these days unless there's reason to). It's worth noting that the difference with different headspaces is a *lot*, if you attempt it with a half empty keg for whatever reason you're in for a carbonation disaster if you rock it longer than twenty seconds. I'd just omit the rocking under pressure step entirely for a half empty keg myself, pressurise it to 45psi then turn it off and continue as normal