Just how DO you get that juicy IPA taste and aroma?

[Garfield]

I bottle, I do a primary ferment, I rack into another fermenter to dry hop and clear some of the sediment out and if I bulk prime I do so as I transfer into another vessel. I mix the dextrose with a small amount of boiled water and add it as the wort goes into the new vessel. I have the tube that transfers the wort coiled on the bottom of the vessel to create a swirl that mixes the liquid dex in evenly. IF you want you can also add some hop tea at this point - I've only done that once though but it seems to have worked out ok.

I'm much the same:

1. Ferment in primary
2. Dry hop in secondary and cold crash
3. Bulk prime in bottling vessel

Priming sugar syrup added to empty vessel then rack finished beer onto this. If you place the outlet at the bottom of vessel, you'll generally get a slight whirpool action to blend it all together. I've never noticed any variation in carbonation between bottles. Having done this method on 50+ batches I'm happy so attest to its consistency.

However, do you CO2 calculations accurately! I have twice overcarbonated entire batches

 

[Garfield]

. IF you want you can also add some hop tea at this point - I've only done that once though but it seems to have worked out ok.

What is hop tea? Pellets steeped in hot water I assume? Does it have a different result to the dry hop?

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Thanks man. I'm looking at all these transfers and thinking that the dry hop step would probably be the single worst move we can make in terms of 02 pickup

We're all prone to some pickup whenever we transfer to the bottling bucket and bottling, but it's only a short window of opportunity because you generally bottle within the hour of transferring and adding prime.

Transferring to a second fermenting vessel for dry hop for x amount of days with pure oxygen is a great opportunity to oxidise your beer. Unless I'm missing something, it's more problematic than it is beneficial and I'd stick to dry hopping during active fermentation so there is next to no oxygen pickup

Understand that secondary is common knowledge but I think this is redundant information

I'm much the same:

1. Ferment in primary
2. Dry hop in secondary and cold crash
3. Bulk prime in bottling vessel

Priming sugar syrup added to empty vessel then rack finished beer onto this. If you place the outlet at the bottom of vessel, you'll generally get a slight whirpool action to blend it all together. I've never noticed any variation in carbonation between bottles. Having done this method on 50+ batches I'm happy so attest to its consistency.

However, do you CO2 calculations accurately! I have twice overcarbonated entire batches

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

I've done hop tea and even as far as a 100gm short steep, pouring equal amounts into 12x pale ale bottles at bottling. These were ok but still not as good as a good quality boutique pale ale, and they should have exceeded that but didn't. Oxidation is my best guess at this point before overhauling my process next brew

What is hop tea? Pellets steeped in hot water I assume? Does it have a different result to the dry hop?

 

[SeeFar]

@Doctormcbrewdle I can definitely see how you would think that and I was very apprehensive first time too. However, if you make sure that there is no splashing and it's a gentle transfer it doesn't really change much. I'm sure champion beer judges would tell the difference but it's negligible for a hack like myself.

@Garfield I read about hop teas and gave them a go when I made a brew that was too weak (the one I posted back a page, I'd added too much water) and had to add some more fermentables. It's basically just a quick boil or some steeped hops added to the second fermentation or whenever you choose to add it, really. It seemed to work pretty well on that batch, I might give it a crack on a few others down the track to see what happens.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

OBSERVATION: Just having a pale now from the bottle. It's hoppier abd more aromatic this way due to (I believe) a couple things

1. The shape of the bottle on the nose is more potent than say, a glass

2. I think aroma is floccing out with the yeast as it clears

I normally drink from a schooner and notice it seems to oxidise as pale ale's floc clear. Do believe I have some oxi issues and also it's probably not possible to get a clear hoppy beer on a home brew scale(?)

Sipping now tastes and smells just like a Feral hop hog to my nose. The Maris Otter is way too tasty to be much similar on the tongue but aroma I think is very similar. Definitely has the fresh bag of hops aroma.. or more the smell when you steep them. Not 'as' fresh but that's all hops I've ever had

Yields a new question for ne. Is it possible to have the aroma stay after flocc?

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Update: bottled latest ale malt lager straight from primary today rather than secondary to avoid oxygen pickup. Tapped bottles with cap sitting loosely on bottle and watched the various nucleation points explode with vigour while the caps would slowly lift up and down, purging oxygen before capping. It's not a hoppy pale ale but we'll see next brew. I used a sugar measure and gram scale to go to 2.4vols abd believe that this also helps purge oxygen because rather than the boiled sugar mixed into secondary, the fresh granules create nuke points to release o2, thus purging bottles by looks of things.

A mate of mine said something the other day that gives me renewed hope. He said, these beers used to be alot 'fruitier' which is his word for pale ale hops. In thinking about that, he's right. I used to have little problem looking back when I was doing kits and adding fresh hops.. Things I did differently were: no secondary and possibly leaving all caps loose before capping off

Time will tell

 

[SeeFar]

But isn't that the same as a fermenter - the bottles aren't systematically pushing the O2 upwards and out the mouth replacing it with CO2 but mixing together with the air in the head space and what is being pushed out is a complete mix?

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Probably. But it's a complete step up from what I have been doing. Time will tell. There's bound to be less o2 than not doing this. How much? I don't know yet

I thought about purging the headspace but in reality, the same thing will happen: ie, it will mix with some oxygen from the environment before you can seal the cap

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Just another epiphany here. I was thinking about my process last night and realized that, with my complete lack of knowledge on o2 pickup, I'd been removing the airlock, pushing down on the fermenter lid multiple times to SNIFF how the dry hops are doing.. hiw the F didn't I know this after all these years brewing!? This alone is massive destruction to my hops. Let alone every single other step I've been making.

This next batch is set to be a complete showstopper of a pale. I've Little doubt it will be incredible (hope I don't have to eat these words a few weeks from now.. I'll be throwing the bottling gear and buying a kegerator)

Merry Christmas to you all

 

[SeeFar]

Probably. But it's a complete step up from what I have been doing. Time will tell. There's bound to be less o2 than not doing this. How much? I don't know yet

I thought about purging the headspace but in reality, the same thing will happen: ie, it will mix with some oxygen from the environment before you can seal the cap

Yeah, keen to hear the results, if it works I might do the same thing whilst I still bottle.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Sound like a sure fire go-getter

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

QUESTION: I've just had a thought. People use sodium metabisulfite to scrub oxygen in mash. What exactly is stopping anyone from using it in a bottling bucket, say. Would this theoretically remove residual oxygen left over from the bottling process?

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Ok. Now, even I can laugh at this. I've just cracked one of my last pales in a stubbie. And thought: geez this tastes exactly like a Feral hop hog, looked down and it was actually in a FHH bottle (laughs) I'd had 4x of these same pale's already today (just in schooners) and while they're really good (have also had a coyple boutique's for cmparison)I've just realized I'm just looking for that extreme hop aroma.. my beer is already as good as Feral, etc as it is, oxidised to absolutelle buggery. I swear, you really couldn't get much more o2 into my old brew if you tried and look.. I guess I'm quite happy with this

I must say, this last pale's backbone is so tasty, I have to attribute it to Maris Otter, M44 yeast and leaving the most trub I've ever done before.

While I can't recommend this for everyone's brew setup it seems to seriously work for mine. I've actually tipped a few 'boutique' beers this arvo to get back to my homies! Wow

I guess I'm just REALLY picky and haven't been able to get that huge, fresh hop hit. It's seriously all I'm missing in the pale ale dept.

 

[koshari]

6 pages in and my first post. Simply dry hopping 100g of cascade hops per 40l for the last 3 days in the primary is tuning out lovely juicy beer for me.

 

[Garfield]

Ok. Now, even I can laugh at this. I've just cracked one of my last pales in a stubbie. And thought: geez this tastes exactly like a Feral hop hog, looked down and it was actually in a FHH bottle (laughs) I'd had 4x of these same pale's already today (just in schooners) and while they're really good (have also had a coyple boutique's for cmparison)I've just realized I'm just looking for that extreme hop aroma.. my beer is already as good as Feral, etc as it is, oxidised to absolutelle buggery

Are you absolutely sure this wasnt a Feral?

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Lol. Yea dude. I knew someone would ask this!

Here's a little story for you I was hoping I wouldn't have to type.. About 6 months ago, I tried my first Hog hog. Bought a 4-pack at the local after shopping to A/B against my pale with a mate. We cracked one each, took one sip and tipped the rest, leaving two fridged for later. The Wife even took a swig for good meaaure and confirmed, it was 'off' (don't worry, these are long gone) I was so dissapointed I wrote to Feral, telling them they were the first ever beers I'd bought here oxidised to the shedhouse. They were kind enough to send me a replacement 4 pack plus 4x Boris' imperial stouts.

Short story: the hogs were just ok. Certainly nothing special and I remember thinking even the fresh batch from factory were pretty crappy. I've since learned that's most definitely oxidation

The end

 

[goatchop41]

my beer is already as good as Feral, etc as it is, oxidised to absolutelle buggery.

No offense, but I find it incredibly doubtful that your beer is anywhere near as good as Hop Hog if it's oxidised (saying that an oxidised beer is better than a FHH is quite an insult to Feral, not a reflection on your beer)...one too many of your own homebrews tonight, methinks

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Well, what can I say. Thank you! I guess..

 

[mtb]

Beauty, eye, beer holder.