Just how DO you get that juicy IPA taste and aroma?

[mtb]

My yeast harvests are pretty clean. The 30min post-boil and pre-transfer to FV is more than enough time for the hop matter to drop out. Given what I get in the glass & what I pour out when the keg is empty, I'm confident that I actually get zero hop matter from the kettle

 

[wide eyed and legless]

With the humongous taxes you have over alcohol in this country, homebrewing is a very good way of saving money!
Well, not drinking beer would be better for your wallet and your liver, but sad for you. ;P

I would love to know what the retailer makes and what the taxes are. Bulk buy anyone.
https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=beer

 

[SeeFar]

I would love to know what the retailer makes and what the taxes are. Bulk buy anyone.
https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=beer

Ha, I love it:

Variety: home brewed beer
Place of origin: Zhezhiang
Minimum order: 200 cartons.

That's some impressive output for a home brewer!!

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

So, what tf happened to the hops thread?! How exactly did we get here?

 

[mtb]

Just a couple of off topic posts, it's hardly a hellish descent into anarchy.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Question: Is it also possible that dry hopping can introduce oxygen?

 

[manticle]

If you open your vessel and drop something in - yes. From the process rather than from the hops themselves. In a pressurised ferment, that risk is minimised, keg hopping a pressurised keg likewise, dry hopping a still active ferment same (although co2 can drive off volatiles if theyhave somewhere to go. No one system is perfect - it’s all about steps to improve.

 

[SeeFar]

This paper/research suggests that hops does have oxygen in it, which is introduced when adding:

http://scottjanish.com/examination-...s-for-achieving-maximum-hop-aroma-and-flavor/

 

[manticle]

Undoubtedly. Arguably much less than the act of opening the lid and casting particulate matter into your solution. As I suggested, doing into a co2 rich environment (active fermentation for example) may reduce that.

 

[SeeFar]

In response to the original question, I'm doing kit and a bit in bottles and I'm very pleasantly surprised as to how much of a hop hit I'm able to get. Ok, it's not a Pirate Life IPA/Feral War Hog/Bridge Road Bling but I reckon if I temp controlled and kegged I'd hit the spot. This is what I'm drinking now and if all my beers after this one are at least this good I'll be very pleased:

1.5kg Morgans pale malt extract - unhopped
1.5kg DW Pilsner malt extract - unhopped
250gm maltodextrin
200gm pale crystal steeped for 20 min at 65c
15gm Simcoe for 20min
5gm Amarillo 10min
5gm Galaxy 10min
11.5gm Safale US 0.5
25 litres (which is where I went wrong, should have been no more than 22)
OG 1041

I started dry hopping 2 days into the fermentation process with:

15gm Amarillo
15gm Simcoe
20gm Galaxy

However, the airlock had slowed a lot by day 4 and the gravity was at 1012 meaning that my beer was only 3.8% ABV.

I put in another 330gm of dry light malt extract with 500ml of water that had 10gm of Simcoe boiled for 10 min and 18gm Citra steeped for 8min. It was bottled 10 days later on the 1st of Dec with a final gravity of 1011.

I'm drinking it now and it is by far the best beer I've ever brewed. I'd put it at a mild IPA or a full-bodied, full-hopped pale. It was only bottled on 1 Dec, so I know I'm drinking it too early. But it is perfectly carbonated (used Coopers carbodrops) and so full of flavour.

The process was obviously a comedy of errors but the end result, no matter how accidental, is dead-set delicious (gotta say, the one I poured before was a whole lot more clear than the one I photographed. Taste pretty much the same, though).

 

[Hez]

Undoubtedly. Arguably much less than the act of opening the lid and casting particulate matter into your solution. As I suggested, doing into a co2 rich environment (active fermentation for example) may reduce that.

If the fermentation is still on going, more CO2 will come out from the beer displacing the oxigen to the top and eventually out the fermenter up the airlock, CO2 has higher density than air.
Anyway, when you open the lid, some air will go inside but even if the fermentation is over, the fermenter will be full of CO2, so this new introduced air will end up trapped between the CO2 and the lid.
Do you think that's something to worry about?

If you ferment under pressure, when you open the fermenter, all air and CO2 from inside will escape (normalize pressure) and will be replaced by air, so if you want a CO2-only-environment and dry hopping you should purge the air with CO2 before starting the fermentation and add the dry hops to some kind of pressurized capsule directly connected to the fermenter with a valve. I don't know if that equipment even exists...

Thinking about density, one thing I don't know and maybe it's a stupid question , but.. the hops release oil, oil has less density than water, beer is more dense, so... Oil floats!
Does that mean that this oils will be lost if you fill the bottles from the fermenter tap/spigot???? :S nooo! So what do we do to keep them? Auto syphon to other bucket and stir before filling the bottles? That will introduce more air for sure!

Probably this doesn't make any sense...

Answer to myself: oh you are dense!

 

[Jack of all biers]

If the fermentation is still on going, more CO2 will come out from the beer displacing the oxigen to the top and eventually out the fermenter up the airlock, CO2 has higher density than air.
Anyway, when you open the lid, some air will go inside but even if the fermentation is over, the fermenter will be full of CO2, so this new introduced air will end up trapped between the CO2 and the lid.
Do you think that's something to worry about?

This comes up a lot. The answer is that different gases mix despite the density or molecular weights. Air (78% nitrogen, 20.9% oxygen 1% Argon and 0.1% other gases) will mix with the CO2 in the fermentor and not sit above it in a separate layer. Part of that mixing is due to different energy levels in the individual molecules (ones with more energy will move around more), but part of it is that when one lifts the lid, one creates pressure differences (ie drafts) that mix the gases no matter what we think about blankets of CO2 being formed.

If you ferment under pressure, when you open the fermenter, all air and CO2 from inside will escape (normalize pressure) and will be replaced by air, so if you want a CO2-only-environment and dry hopping you should purge the air with CO2 before starting the fermentation and add the dry hops to some kind of pressurized capsule directly connected to the fermenter with a valve. I don't know if that equipment even exists...

A lot of brewers who pressure ferment transfer from fermentor to pre-CO2-purged kegs without ever exposing the beer to air (and oxygen). Others counter-pressure fill into pre-purged bottles, but that is very difficult to do without at least some air exposure. Most wont open the pressurised fermentor lid as you have described. One way of doing a dry hop would be to add the hops at the beginning of the fermentation and/or to a keg prior to purging with CO2. Pressure transfer from fermentor to keg with hops then after the required time, transfer to another purged keg. As you are bottling until you go back to Spain, this may not help your enquiry though.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say regarding the hop oils. Are you asking about the aroma and flavour compounds obtained from dry hoping?

 

[Hez]

This comes up a lot. The answer is that different gases mix despite the density or molecular weights. Air (78% nitrogen, 20.9% oxygen 1% Argon and 0.1% other gases) will mix with the CO2 in the fermentor and not sit above it in a separate layer. Part of that mixing is due to different energy levels in the individual molecules (ones with more energy will move around more), but part of it is that when one lifts the lid, one creates pressure differences (ie drafts) that mix the gases no matter what we think about blankets of CO2 being formed.


A lot of brewers who pressure ferment transfer from fermentor to pre-CO2-purged kegs without ever exposing the beer to air (and oxygen). Others counter-pressure fill into pre-purged bottles, but that is very difficult to do without at least some air exposure. Most wont open the pressurised fermentor lid as you have described. One way of doing a dry hop would be to add the hops at the beginning of the fermentation and/or to a keg prior to purging with CO2. Pressure transfer from fermentor to keg with hops then after the required time, transfer to another purged keg. As you are bottling until you go back to Spain, this may not help your enquiry though.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say regarding the hop oils. Are you asking about the aroma and flavour compounds obtained from dry hoping?

Thank you for the explanation. Lesson learnt. I knew that wasn't going to be so simple... jejeje pure logic only takes you to one point... (I'm a software analyst, last time I studied chemistry I was 14 )

Yes, I've read some people worry about the oil film on top of the beer, I guess that'd be the oils from the hops (if the fermenter was properly clean and sanitized), and I was thinking... if the hops aroma and flavour are in their oils, and we leave them behind... (this film of oil floating over the beer) we are doing it wrong??
Or are the flavour and aroma already dissolved into the beer by this time?

I'm good at maths, but I have to study chemistry, I have no clue of what I am talking about...

This evening I have to do the first of the two dry hops I have prepared for my hoppy-APA. I'll try to be quick and drop them close to the surface to avoid splashing, what else can i do? :S

 

[Jack of all biers]

I don't think it works that way (the oils you've described as floating on the surface being the flavour and aroma compounds), but my knowledge of the compounds that are obtained from dry hopping is limited. Someone else will no doubt be able to educate you, but I'd say don't go out of your way to try to mix that oily residue into your beer as you will likely do more harm than good by oxidizing during the mixing.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

While we're on the topic: I always stir gently to mix the pre boiled priming sucrose through the beer evenly because I dare say some bottles would be overcarbed and some under if I didn't. (In bottling bucket)

Are people generally doing the same or not mixing at all?

 

[Hez]

While we're on the topic: I always stir gently to mix the pre boiled priming sucrose through the beer evenly because I dare say some bottles would be overcarbed and some under if I didn't. (In bottling bucket)

Are people generally doing the same or not mixing at all?

If i did bulk priming i would definitely stirr it, as you say, but I don't, I prime every single bottle one by one like a champ. I use a syringe with the tip cut off (it's like a cylinder adjustable in volume), I weight my priming sugar once, and measure the next 30 times with this "advanced priming tool". The important thing is to tap it a little to be sure you don't have gaps in between the sugar "grains".

I've thought about making the priming syrup with hops and using a regular syringe for priming the bottles one by one with that, but, I don't know how would that work...

The thing is, when you syphon the beer from the fermenter to the priming bucket, do you get this oil or does it stick to the syphon itself?

It would be interesting to know about this oil, any advanced chemist among us?

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

I get the oil in my bucket. But, I also lose a little of it to trub loss too

I also used to use a sugar measure too

 

[goatchop41]

My juiciest IPA was achieved with galaxy:
Hops:
None during boil
1g/L flameout with whirlpool
1g/L at high krausen for 3 days
1g/L late ferment for 3 days
1g/L post ferment for 3 days

Juicey as hell! Loads of passion fruit flavour

Total of 4g/L - this is still on the VERY low side for NEIPA-type beers (which we can assume the OP is after, as they are looking for 'juicy' character).
Homebrewers who I have seen making outstanding examples of these beers are using 10-15g/L total between whirlpool and dry hopping

 

[TheSumOfAllBeers]

The CO2 stratification myth doggedly persists in homebrewing circles.

Gases will evenly mix, given time, and this process is massively accelerated by say, lifting the lid off of a plastic fermenter and creating a massive vortex.

Having a small port like say a 1.5" tri clamp port in you FV helps with the vortex scenario, but some O2 is going to get in.

It has made me think about whether you can get a tri clamp unit that you can purge that would let you do this kind of operation

 

[SeeFar]

While we're on the topic: I always stir gently to mix the pre boiled priming sucrose through the beer evenly because I dare say some bottles would be overcarbed and some under if I didn't. (In bottling bucket)

Are people generally doing the same or not mixing at all?

I bottle, I do a primary ferment, I rack into another fermenter to dry hop and clear some of the sediment out and if I bulk prime I do so as I transfer into another vessel. I mix the dextrose with a small amount of boiled water and add it as the wort goes into the new vessel. I have the tube that transfers the wort coiled on the bottom of the vessel to create a swirl that mixes the liquid dex in evenly. IF you want you can also add some hop tea at this point - I've only done that once though but it seems to have worked out ok.