Just how DO you get that juicy IPA taste and aroma?

[Doctormcbrewdle]

My ridiculously hopped apa with just pale and wheat (no crystal) was amazing one week after bottling and now, one month later has become almost an amber ale with very little hop aroma...

Must be oxidation.
I don't see myself redoing the experiment in the near future... I have plenty of pirate life cans nearby...

Now hold on a minute man. You're so very close, don't give up now! Go back and read through or post your process here and we'll see if we can critique it. My last pale was Pirate to a T and seemed to get even hoppier with time for once!

My tips:

1. Use only FRESH hops. If they smell a little bit old that's exactly what you're going to end up with. What goes in, also comes out.

2. Use Mangrove Jacks M44 yeast. This has been a real improvement over US05 for me. It's so much nicer. I'm willing to firego tge long lag times for the end result

3. Use mostly late hops

4. Dry hop at around 5g p/litre

5. Dry hop during primary fermentation to allow the hops to stir through and avoid oxidation

6. Don't splash hot wort

7. Aerate well once cold

8. Don't splash at bottling

9. Allow caps to sit loose for a while before capping off

10. Store bottles cool

You can do this man

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

I've only had this issue with the dry hopped beers by the way

Are you dry hopping during active fermentation? And are you cold crashing?

 

[Hez]

Now hold on a minute man. You're so very close, don't give up now! Go back and read through or post your process here and we'll see if we can critique it. My last pale was Pirate to a T and seemed to get even hoppier with time for once!

My tips:

1. Use only FRESH hops. If tgey smell a little bit old that's exactly what you're going to ebd up with. What goes in comes out.

2. Use Mangrove Jacks M44 yeast. This has been a real improvement over US05 for me. It's so much nicer. I'm willing to firego tge long lag times for the end result

3. Use mostly late hops

4. Dry hop at around 5g p/litre

5. Dry hop during primary fermentation to allow the hops to stir through and avoid oxidation

6. Don't splash hot wort

7. Aerate well once cold

8. Don't splash at bottling

9. Allow caps to sit loose for a while before capping off

You can do this man

The only things I didn't do as you said were :
-i used us5
-I did two dry hops, one after 4 days and a second one after 7 (for 3 days more)
Next time I will dry hop after 4 days only for 6 days... And I'll drink it all after one week of bottle condition. I will make the apa party ! Jejeje

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Did you also cold crash?

Opening the lid on a fermenter after primary lets alot of carbon dioxide out and alot of oxygen in. Just how much is taken up by the liquid isn't clearly known but the evidence also clearly points to oxidation or at least a beer not as aromatic as it could have been

How do I know this? Wellllll

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Ps, I've been dry hopping day two or three with the best results I've ever had. No reason to change anytime soon unless there's good reason not to

 

[Hez]

Did you also cold crash?

Opening the lid on a fermenter after primary lets alot of carbon dioxide out and alot of oxygen in. Just how much is taken up by the liquid isn't clearly known but the evidence also clearly points to oxidation or at least a beer not as aromatic as it could have been

How do I know this? Wellllll

Yes , I cold crash to 3℃ for only 24h, just to help the major part of the sediments to settle down , I didn't do a full cold crash.
I put all the details in another post.

 

[Hez]

Ps, I've been dry hopping day two or three with the best results I've ever had. No reason to change anytime soon unless there's good reason not to

Day 2 seems too soon to me, but I will give a try to the day 3 dry hop for 5-6 days..

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

I believe cooling liquid absorbs more oxygen. Don't quote me on this and hopefully someone can either confirm or dismiss but cooling beer helps bottled products absorb carbonation from the headspace so can't see this being any different

Cold crashing also has a second pitfall, being shrinkage pulls more oxygen through the airlock.

All I know is that since watching these steps I don't seem to have a problem anymore

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Day 2 seems too soon to me, but I will give a try to the day 3 dry hop for 5-6 days..

Yes it 'seems' too soon, I agree. But it works well for me. I recommend trying it for yourself

 

[Hez]

Amarillo
Cascade
Bravo is the best.

Ahtanum
Hallertauer
Bobek sucks as a cimbo

Love amarillo

(8)Chupame la minga dominga que vengo de Franciaaaa! Chupame la minga dominga que llevo sustanciaaaa!(8)

 

[goatchop41]

9. Allow caps to sit loose for a while before capping off

Where did this idea come from? It doesn't make any sense. If anything, you'll just get more O2 ingress under the loose cap. There isn't enough dissolved CO2 in the beer that you can knock out to displace the O2 in the small headspace.
Doing that isn't adding anything, and is possibly making things worse...

 

[Rocker1986]

Cold crashed every batch I've done for the last 5 years and never had any oxidation problems or beers losing massive amounts of hop aroma and flavor in very short periods of time. They might drop off a little by the time I get to the last few glasses of a batch, but otherwise the beers are fine. What the hell are you guys doing? I honestly don't believe cold crashing causes oxidised beer, maybe I'm wrong and I'd be happy to be corrected with some scientific data, but if it does increase the O2 level in the beer, it's never affected my beers, at least not to my palate. They've all been perfectly fine.

 

[Garfield]

Cold crashed every batch I've done for the last 5 years and never had any oxidation problems or beers losing massive amounts of hop aroma and flavor in very short periods of time. They might drop off a little by the time I get to the last few glasses of a batch, but otherwise the beers are fine. What the hell are you guys doing? I honestly don't believe cold crashing causes oxidised beer, maybe I'm wrong and I'd be happy to be corrected with some scientific data, but if it does increase the O2 level in the beer, it's never affected my beers, at least not to my palate. They've all been perfectly fine.

+1

 

[Gloveski]

+2

 

[slcmorro]

5. Dry hop during primary fermentation to allow the hops to stir through and avoid oxidation

To clarify - do this after the bulk of fermentation is complete, i.e - 75% of the way. Too early, and you'll risk a super hazy beer by proteins and hop oils (think NEIPA) binding. Not only that, but any aroma added to the beer is likely to be blown off by rigorous co2 production.

 

[fdsaasdf]

5. Dry hop during primary fermentation to allow the hops to stir through and avoid oxidation
To clarify - do this after the bulk of fermentation is complete, i.e - 75% of the way. Too early, and you'll risk a super hazy beer by proteins and hop oils (think NEIPA) binding.

While haziness may occur it won't be permanent or necessarily even long-term. A few days crashing drops out the sediment in my experience. I've dropped 8g/L in at the start of primary and the beer was clearing too much to be called a NEIPA within a fortnight (to my bemusement as I was planning to enter it as a NEIPA in a comp).

Not only that, but any aroma added to the beer is likely to be blown off by rigorous co2 production.

My discussions with pro brewers and research at home does not support this theory. My last XPA can fill a room with piney citrus aromas, and the only 2 hop additions it received were 5g/L at flameout and at yeast pitch.

 

[goatchop41]

Not only that, but any aroma added to the beer is likely to be blown off by rigorous co2 production.

My discussions with pro brewers and research at home does not support this theory. My last XPA can fill a room with piney citrus aromas, and the only 2 hop additions it received were 5g/L at flameout and at yeast pitch.

I'm with you here @fdsaasdf. Anecdotally, I've done a beer that was only dry hopped at the first signs of fermentation. It had quite a persistant aroma from the galaxy that didn't even die down after a month and a half in the keg

 

[Rocker1986]

A few days crashing drops out sediment, but in my experience haze takes a lot longer to drop out on its own, and I wouldn't really class it as sediment.

I usually dry hop when I cold crash a batch or a couple of days before, seems to work fine.

 

[koshari]

I'm with you here @fdsaasdf. Anecdotally, I've done a beer that was only dry hopped at the first signs of fermentation. It had quite a persistant aroma from the galaxy that didn't even die down after a month and a half in the keg

this is consistent with my findings, having said that iam only going on about 3 months experience, at the moment iam inclined to dryhop for the entire primary process, then crash cool and keg, i also found placing the hop pellets in multiple bags increases the flavour, i think i will try without bags next time?

 

[Dan Pratt]

^ ^ ^ I've just done a NEIPA and can attest to the facts that aromatic outcomes from adding hops to ferment during high krausen ~ 48hrs in, results in excellent aroma for the beer.

I will be definately using this technique for any hop forward beer.

 

[goatchop41]

this is consistent with my findings, having said that iam only going on about 3 months experience, at the moment iam inclined to dryhop for the entire primary process, then crash cool and keg, i also found placing the hop pellets in multiple bags increases the flavour, i think i will try without bags next time?

Yeah, piss the bags off. They only restrict distribution of hop oils, and add another avenue for contamination

 

[markp]

^ ^ ^ I've just done a NEIPA and can attest to the facts that aromatic outcomes from adding hops to ferment during high krausen ~ 48hrs in, results in excellent aroma for the beer.

I will be definately using this technique for any hop forward beer.

Hey dan
Did you cold crash that neipa? Don’t want to loose the murkiness that is characteristic of this style.
Cheers
Nark

 

[Coodgee]

Hey dan
Did you cold crash that neipa? Don’t want to loose the murkiness that is characteristic of this style.
Cheers
Nark

no offence but I'm just going to roll my eyes right now... kids these days...

 

[koshari]

darn it you blokes, i really need to get a dark bitter english ale in to satisfy my beer engine supply but with all these different methods of dry hopping to try i just wanna try a NEIPA style now.

 

[SmallFry]

darn it you blokes, i really need to get a dark bitter english ale in to satisfy my beer engine supply but with all these different methods of dry hopping to try i just wanna try a NEIPA style now.

I can't think of any worse style than NEIPA to go through a beer engine. Me, I love my beer engine.

 

[DU99]

hop hash would that give a juicy type flavour..think of getting some of those isohops

 

[Dan Pratt]

Hey dan
Did you cold crash that neipa? Don’t want to loose the murkiness that is characteristic of this style.
Cheers
Nark

Just drop the temp from 22c down to 16c before packaging. Still very cloudy.

 

[markp]

no offence but I'm just going to roll my eyes right now... kids these days...

Wtf, being a knob gets you no votes. We all start somewhere and just because I have less knowledge than you shouldn’t mean you have to be a smart ass. I’ll bet you started as a rookie dumbo too. If you have nothing constructive to say shut the **** up.
Enough said by me.

 

[koshari]

I can't think of any worse style than NEIPA to go through a beer engine. Me, I love my beer engine.

I agree. What i meant was what goes into the fermenter next. By the way love your hunting scene handle.

 

[Dan Pratt]

Wtf, being a knob gets you no votes. We all start somewhere and just because I have less knowledge than you shouldn’t mean you have to be a smart ass. I’ll bet you started as a rookie dumbo too. If you have nothing constructive to say shut the **** up.
Enough said by me.

geez lighten up @markp.

@Coodgee was more likley having a crack at me for making a NEIPA and only slightly at you for using the word murkiness when describing a beer.

if you like using Munich malt you and Coodgee will be besties.