Just how DO you get that juicy IPA taste and aroma?

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Oxygen sucks in through airlock to replace lost liquid

 

[Garfield]

Oxygen sucks in through airlock to replace lost liquid

Air replaces the liquid (say 20% oxygen in air) and a hydro sample draws maybe 200ml? So you've introduced 40ml of O2 into the vessel maybe. I wouldn't expect any issues from that.

You're fear of oxygen (while appropriate in some cases) seems disproportionate to the risks here. I bench cap and pull hydro samples regularly and have never spoilt a batch due to oxidation.

Are you certain you've oxidised bottles? Could it be any other off flavour that you've misidentified? Could you describe in more details (apologies if you have already).

I respect your dedication but a little concerned it's a touch misguided on this occasion.

Garf

 

[CJW]

Regarding hydro samples and O2 ingress...

Maybe try using a blow off tube so that the no air is sucked into the fermenter. I do this, the starsan is sucked a few centimeters back up the tube but not into the fermenter, then as fermentation continues and more CO2 is created it moves back down and starts bubbling again as normal.

Also, why not use a refractometer to take intermediate readings when waiting for the readings to stabilise? You can always do a final hydro reading, but a refrac requires only a few good drops.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Well, in my hop forward beer the hops completely dissappear within days and my pilsners are fresh abd really great to start with, but turn bad later on.

The taste is hard to describe but I'll do my best. The freshness is completely lost. It's no longer crisp. And there is a strange sherry like flavour attached to the malt. The original greatness just goes down the drain. The pale ale's don't seem to suffer from the malt problems, just hop aroma mainly and hops get muddled/muted, only the pilsners suffer the malt tasting bad

 

[Tony121]

Have you had anyone else try your beer, such as other brewers or the LHBS staff? They may assist with pin pointing if it is oxidisation or something else as it seems you have an ongoing problem even after you changed your process.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

I haven't. But what else could it possibly be? Other than heat

 

[Tony121]

Hard to diagnose over the internet. You’ve got numerous threads running in similar veins with good advice which haven’t seemed to fix what you are tasting, so first hand taste may give a better assessment.

I’m no expert so take it or leave it.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

It doesn't take a genius to know it's probably the heat. Unpasteurized beer at 40 degrees isn't exactly a great recipe for success.

 

[Tony121]

Alright, will leave you to it then.

 

[fdsaasdf]

Alright, will leave you to it then.

+1

 

[Dan Pratt]

It doesn't take a genius to know it's probably the heat. Unpasteurized beer at 40 degrees isn't exactly a great recipe for success.

the thread just ended.

 

[S.E]

India pale Ale was unpasteurized beer shipped to India often at 40 degrees and that was a recipe for success.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

That's what they say but how do you know it was still perfectly fresh? They were doing it to attempt help of heat and oxidation staling in the first place. Maybe why my hoppy ales are holding up now after low oxygen brewing

None of us were there to know for sure

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Anyone know of a India lager I can try? Laughs

 

[MHB]

I'm not a fan of the family - particularly NEPA, but getting the "Juicy" character.
Use truly obscene amounts of hops late
Exclude Oxygen as much as possible
Use very low mineral water (0/low Carbonate/Bicarbonate)
Get your Calcium from something other than Sulphate
Big yeast pitch, good temperature control, fast ferment 3-4 days
Drink the beer fast (the old "from grain to brain in 14 days")
Tip out anything left after a couple of weeks because it will be going down hill so fast it will be approaching undrinkable, if it wasn't at the start!
Mark

 

[Mardoo]

@MHB wondering what you think. There’s often a throat burn I see in NEIPA’s or heavily late-hopped beers. My guess at the moment is that it comes from using hops higher up on the cohumulone % scale. Whaddaya think?

 

[GalBrew]

Anyone know of a India lager I can try? Laughs

There are plenty around. I personally have never had one that I thought was an improvement on IPA (generally speaking).

 

[Dan Pratt]

@MHB wondering what you think. There’s often a throat burn I see in NEIPA’s or heavily late-hopped beers. My guess at the moment is that it comes from using hops higher up on the cohumulone % scale. Whaddaya think?

I get that throat feel from the style which I think is from a combination of the higher Chloride (200ppm) combined with the heavy late hop oils retained in the beer? MHB may have a better idea of that.

It does seem like a biting flavour from the ones I have made and tried from commercial batches they all have that theme.

 

[MHB]

@MHB wondering what you think. There’s often a throat burn I see in NEIPA’s or heavily late-hopped beers. My guess at the moment is that it comes from using hops higher up on the cohumulone % scale. Whaddaya think?

Mostly its just the gross amount of hop oils, turpins (clue in the name), polyphenols and other hop products that goes into solution.
Remember that a lot of these beers are dry hopped later in the ferment so there is a fair amount of alcohol there to dissolve some fractions.
Personally I think its a fad and wont last in any meaningful way - most of the beers are undrinkable (well maybe just a half, but couldn't go back for a second), they are ridiculously expensive to make and don't store or ship well. Not a formula for commercial success.
Mark

Added Polyphenols

 

[Droopy Brew]

Well, in my hop forward beer the hops completely dissappear within days and my pilsners are fresh abd really great to start with, but turn bad later on.

The taste is hard to describe but I'll do my best. The freshness is completely lost. It's no longer crisp. And there is a strange sherry like flavour attached to the malt. The original greatness just goes down the drain. The pale ale's don't seem to suffer from the malt problems, just hop aroma mainly and hops get muddled/muted, only the pilsners suffer the malt tasting bad

Your problem isn't oxidation it is secondary fermentation at high temperatures.

Don't take my word for it but, next batch bottle as normal and put the bulk of them in temp control at about 18-20C (if you only put a few in temp control for comparison you will kick yourself when you taste the difference) . Leave a few out at ambient as you normally would.

Do a side by side comparison after a few weeks and you will see what I mean.

After a couple of weeks to carb up, keep your bottles either in the fridge/keezer or at least at cellar temps.
Let us know your results.