Judging Standards And Fake Entries

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dr K

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I guess that this is some attempt to join two threads, the OT label morphs beer and the what goes on behind the scenes.
Just because someone has BJCP training and even recognition does not mean that they are a great judge.
It does mean, however, that their skills and knowledge have been tested and assessed by recognised and highly experienced peers and that they have been acknowleged.
I personally know a number of very good judges who have not taken the BJCP path, judges whose knowledge and opinion I hold in the highest esteem and guys who have mentored me for many years.
Personally I am not a great fan of judging, I find it draining and can think of better things to do with my right hand than write but I do judge and hope that I do a reasonable job.
The BJCP programme has been runing here now for two full series of exams, it is hard work to do the training but I assure you well worth it, not just for the individuals who take the time but for brewing in Australia as a whole.
Over the next few years more and more people may take the plunge but in the meantime more and more people who choose not to will be exposed to and influenced by the quality and high standards that the BJCP brings.
Fake Beers and False Entires:
It is bad form to deliberately enter a bad beer, especially if you know it to be infected. It screws the judges palates and may damage another brewers chances.
Doctored commercial beers...you are only fooling yourself.
"Wrong" classification....OK you have brewed a classic bohemian pilsener, except its not quite there, well you feel its not quite there, but then it may be a bit spicy for a german pilsner.....easy...enter the same beer twice, as a BP and as a GP, let three judges decide, you never know you might get first and second..I have been asked about this a number of times and I stick to the argument "just because you say it is does not mean that it is..."
Finally though, be at peace with your judges for whatever work and drudgery you put into your beer (unless it was a sham) and what ever dreams are broken by their judging it is still a beautifull beer.
 
Well - very Well Said Dr K.
 
<puts down the VB bottle, oak chips and marker pen>

Expect a great new version of GMK's barley wine at the comps next year!
 
What are you really saying?

Judges can be fooled by doctored brews? Who would do this? To what end?
 
Response to above:

Someone mentioned in a thread which is now closed for OT reasons that one of their friends poured LCPA into another bottle with a bit of yeast and sugar and entered in to a comp as his own.

Silly, proves nothing and probably tasted different/bad with a new yeast and sugar.
 
I think more needs to be done to improve taste training for judges. The BJCP training is worthwhile and provides a sound basis for judging, but like it or not, competitions are the principal way to introduce new judges to the craft. It's then up to the more experienced to guide the newer judges through the process. I think this is more a growing pain problem rather than a fault in the process.

Over time the pranksters, along with the unreliable and unprofessional will be weeded out and sent back to their sheds. We are all busy, there is simply too much effort involved in competition organisation to tolerate these sorts of behaviours. (To quote G&S "I've got a little list, they never would be missed, they never would be missed ...")
 
Thanks Dr K, for adding some sense to this debate.

Especially:
It is bad form to deliberately enter a bad beer, especially if you know it to be infected. It screws the judges palates and may damage another brewers chances.
 
So a homebrewer makes a beer and it turns out that it is not quite right.

They think there may be something wrong with it but are not quite sure. Probably due to the fact that they brewer is a young brewer and does not have much experience eg me.

What is the problem with entering a beer like that in a comp?

I'snt this a good oppurtunity for the brewer to get his beer assessed by more their more experienced peers and find out what they may have done wrong and be able to change part of the brewing process next time?

I'snt this what judging is about?

Or are judges assessing beers contantly worrying about the infected beer they may get that will "screw their palates"?

cheers
johnno
 
What are you really saying?

Judges can be fooled by doctored brews? Who would do this? To what end?

I actually heard from somebody, who heard from somebody, who heard from a friend at work who heard from a cousin of a second cousin of a friend...

It was actually a doctored homebrew that killed JFK and Marilyn Monroe (and possibly Elvis). :ph34r:

Warren -
 
It was actually a doctored homebrew that killed JFK and Marilyn Monroe (and possibly Elvis). :ph34r:
Warren -


It is a known fact that Elvis is a member of this board. So that rules him out.


cheers
johnno
 
I am sure I'll be over it by next year but these threads have really put me off entering any beers in any comps.

And it's got nothing to do with the judges.

Batz (getting seriously pissed off with this debate)
 
I am sure I'll be over it by next year but these threads have really put me off entering any beers in any comps.

And it's got nothing to do with the judges.

Batz (getting seriously pissed off with this debate)

Dito.

Andrew
 
I wonder if entering a re-badged or dodgy wine would be picked up in a similar competition?

I think the HomeBrew judging industry (in Australia anyway) is still in relative infancy, but with numbers picking up quickly. There seems to have been a surge in interest in the last 5 years, which is fantastic.

I think it will just take time to iron out a few kinks in the system. I also think it's harder to strictly judge beer than wine. Shiraz, Merlot, Sauv Blanc. We know them all and what they should taste like, but beers sometimes defy classes and strata...

I have great respect for the beer judges we have in Australia, especially since I wouldn't be able to do it myself! That said, I know what I like and that's what I brew.
 
I see no problem with discussing judging standards.

There are over 3000 registered members and probably just as many topics if not more.

This is a discussion forum. Hence we are here to discuss beer related stuff.

Beer comps are becoming more predominant in the homebrewing scene and it is



cheers
johnno
 
Johnno

A couple of unproven accusations and heresays ain't exactly accentuating the positives though. :(

Warren -
 

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