It Does Not Pay To Be Cheap!

[BjornJ]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHH.


Phuh, glad we got that one out of the way. Had been building up steam there for a while.

My new 30 litre urn from e-bay, the one I will use on Sunday for the first time ever. It was cheap, at $55 + postage rather than the $270+ the "real" ones seem to go for.


I have now tested it twice with water only after thoroughly cleaning it. Kept it dry between the two test runs, to the extent that I have dried the heather element with paper towels as it did look a bit dodgy! Today after the second "test-run" with 5 litres of water to test the hose from the tap was not leaking, I noticed the heater element is RUSTING??
Not rusting like an old car, but there is a bit of color on the internal hot plate that was not here before. It looks like tiny specks of surface rust..
Who would make a hot water urn from materials that rust...?????????????????????????

AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHH.
(sorry, that one just slipped out)

Then,
before the second try today I went to bunnings and big W looking at plastic cubes for NC.
Ended up buying a Willow 20 litre water carryer after reading on here that lots of brewers use them with good results.
I rinsed it a couple of times, boiled 20 litres of water and emptied in there, fluffed around getting the hose to fit with thread tape into the tap of the cheap imported urn and generally had a warm, fuzzy feeling. Sunday is the big day, I will try the new urn. I wanted to get some boiling water through the cube, reading this was necessary to condition it.

Then lying the cube down in the bathtub after filling it with hot water, it was leaking?????????????
The cap does not tighten. I can without much force (Say 2 fingers) tighten it so hard it jumps the threads and I can start tighten it again. Careful this time. Tighten, tighten, not tight enough yet, then suddenly, the cap is loose....
Why did I not test this before taking it home???

AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHH.
(last one, promise..)


Now, it rarely pays to be too cheap.
It may not pay to save $200 on the urn and get the first cube I could see?
Will "invest" in some steelwool and brew away after scrubbing it, but I am feeling a lot less warm and fuzzy, that's for damn sure!

I spent a lot of time looking at different urns and debating with myself (mostly not out-loud) about spending on a proper urn when this cheap, imported one showed up. It was too good to be true, wasn't it?

I clearly remember the feeling, it has happened to me before.
Standing in the tool section of a hardware store. Internal debate. Hmm.. The proper tool or that cheap one over there? Hmm.. probably won't use it much? Get the cheap one. If it doesn't work I can always get the expensive one later.
Riiight..
Then I am left swearing (at least somewhat not out-loud) over some cheap piece of tool when trying to do whatever it was I could have done in 10 mins had I had the real tool rather than a cheap knock-off..

aarrgggh..
(knew I would feel better afterwards)


Bjorn

<_<

 

[Cocko]

Absolutely no good mate.. sorry to hear!


A good tip when buying cubes is; Screw lid on and lay one side and kneel on it - to check for leaks! I have five now, blue willow type, and I did this with all: First 2 times they were right but the last 3 it took me to 'test' 3 or 4 in this way to find a 'sealed' one...

Hang in there bro - it is all learning!

 

[mika]

Know your pain Bro. Now I usually spend the $$.... well.... sometimes at least

 

[HoppingMad]

What a mongrel of a day bjorn. The hoops we jump through to knock out a brew eh?

Don't despair too much about marks on your element (unless the whole thing is brown). It's quite normal to get some discolouration on them from continual use - particularly if the element has been sitting in water for a long time. You can get all kinds of colours on them from the water. You'll notice a similar thing if you open up your electric kettle and check the element in the bottom of that.

Hopper.

 

[matho]

Will "invest" in some steelwool and brew away after scrubbing it, but I am feeling a lot less warm and fuzzy, that's for damn sure!

it think i read this right that you are planning to use steelwool to remove to rust?

please don't as the carbon steel in the steelwool will rub off onto the urn creating points for more rust,best to use those plastic scrubbies that can be used on tefflon fry pans.

cheer's

 

[Screwtop]

Firstly, don't touch the element, it will be ok. Sometimes they end up all lumpy and knarley.

Next, don't stress, take the cube back and swap it for one with a good thread and check for the rubber seal in the lid.

Starting out using cheap shitty equipment is all part of brewing, you can brew with the roughest, cheapest junk and still make good beer. Then, you bet you'll begin to upgrade your gear as your experience and beer improves.

Brew well

Screwy

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

Starting out using cheap shitty equipment is all part of brewing, you can brew with the roughest, cheapest junk and still make good beer. Then, you bet you'll begin to upgrade your gear as your experience and beer improves.

Brew well

Screwy

Ain't that the bloody truth. My first set up consisted of stacked milk crates for gravity feeding my wort and an old copper for my kettle and a 20ltr second hand urn. Could have joined the circus if you were lucky enough to have seen my set-up on brewday :lol: Some may say it is still a circus <_< but now I have order to chaos. I have things tweaked a lot better, as the old saying goes crawl before walking.

Cheers
BYB

 

[np1962]

it think i read this right that you are planning to use steelwool to remove to rust?

please don't as the carbon steel in the steelwool will rub off onto the urn creating points for more rust,best to use those plastic scrubbies that can be used on tefflon fry pans.

cheer's

+1 to this, only stronger! DO NOT USE STEEL WOOL!!!!!

Cheers
Nige

 

[raven19]

Did you taste some of the water after being boiled in the urn?

It may be ok.

+2 for not use the steel wool, as per posts above.

good luck with Brew #1.

 

[BjornJ]

Ok, point taken. I will not make it worse by scrubbing away at it with steel wool

This is what I do with a normal steel pot if it was looking not too hot, though. Given the quality of the urn, scrubbing it with steel wool would probably make the whole thing leak or something, anyway!

I feel better today, will go by BigW and get a new cube. The tip about kneeling on it is brilliant, will do that Cocko. May look somewhat suspicious if I don't find one straight away, kneeling in the camping isle at BigW growling at the shelves, hehehe.

A good thing from yesterday was the fact that my silicone hose with a bit of plastic pipe in it that fits exactly in the normal tap for my fermenter also fits beautifully in the hot water urn tap after a couple of layers of thread tape. Niice.

Ok, off to get the grains today and brewing on Sunday.

Thanks
Bjorn

 

[BjornJ]

Did you taste some of the water after being boiled in the urn?

It may be ok.

+2 for not use the steel wool, as per posts above.

good luck with Brew #1.

No, I didn't taste it. Should have thought of that but didn't notice the discoloration until after I had tipped the boiling water in the cube.

Bjorn

 

[eric8]

I feel better today, will go by BigW and get a new cube. The tip about kneeling on it is brilliant, will do that Cocko. May look somewhat suspicious if I don't find one straight away, kneeling in the camping isle at BigW growling at the shelves, hehehe.

I have a cube like this, it's a right PITA!!! I had to use it as I did a brew only to relaise that mine would not do up properly, i overcome the issue by getting some glad wrap and folding it over a number of times, purge the air stick the glad wrap over the top and then tighten the lid, works well, but I need another cube.

Next one i get I will be testing the Cocko way

 

[Beer&Kebab]

I have the same el'cheapo Ebay urn and it has no rust on the element. I have done 5 brews and really like it. The element does crudd up in the boil and I just give it a scrub with a PLASTIC scourer and it comes good. Just give it it a clean.. She'll be right.. Happy brewing !

 

[chappo1970]

I reckon your urn is fine and do as Screwy says. Have a look at you household kettle element guarantee it's more manky than your urns. And Cocko's got the right idea about testing at the shop although I have found some will still fail once hot water/liquid has been used hence the tips below should help.

Not only do I use those cubes for No Chill but I also ferment in those cubes mainly because it allows me to fit 3 cubes in the fridge at once and not just 2 if I used the barrel type.

Ok tip No.1 get a sharp stanley knife and carefully shave off the waste extrusion from the around the thread of the cube you'll see this where they have mated the 2 halves of the cube together. Also around the top, inner and outer lip, of the threaded spout. It's amazing how one little lump with stop it from sealing but this will also prevent a build up of gunk and stuff because it's smooth and easier to clean.

No.2 with all new cubes I do 2 things firstly I dump 75-90C hot water into the cube with lid and tap in place. Leave no head room try to fill it as much as you can and put the lid on tightly and lay it down on it's side on some dry concrete preferably in the sun for at least a few hours. This will do 2 things firstly it will show up any leaks or failing seals because you will clearly see water stain marks on the concrete and give you an indication of where the leak is and secondly exposing it UV will help condition and sanitise.

Please wear appropriate protective wear like thick gloves, full length pants and enclosed shoes. Hot liquids at those temps will burn you and will burn you very badly very quickly. Also the cube will quickly match the temp of the water your dropping in and playing hot potato with essentially 20kgs of dead weight is not nearly as much fun as it sounds. :icon_cheers:

Just another couple of tips and 2c B.

Good luck for Sunday I sure it will be a cracker.

Chappo

 

[Mattese]

I too have "El Cheapo Ebay Urn", with a slight discolouration on the element, but it seems to be working fine. Until my plan to kidnap Sherman takes form, I'm happy enough with it. I've run a few brews through it and they taste fine (Ok they don't, but I can't blame the urn for that).

My biggest issue was the ridiculous sticker that says "HOT"...

 

[Bribie G]

Trim up the opening in the cube with a sharp box cutter, there are often jagged bits left over from the casting process, and smear a wee bit of cooking oil on the rubber, open and close it a few times and then re test. Both my 20L Willows seal very well after this once-only treatment.

The element in my birko started off a nice neutral 'nickel' sort of colour but after a few cleans is now pure copper, I reckon it was probably anodised with a bit of something else such as nickel and now that's worn off. If worried about genuine rust then just smear it with some good old olive oil in between uses. '
Not WD 40 though :lol:

Edit: man at that price I'm going to order one myself as a general hot water supply around the brewery:

Heat up the initial strike water for the 40L urn. Why reduce the life of a 300 dollar item when the fifty buck urn can do the slave work
Heat up the sparge in a bucket water sorry liquor while the 40L is mashing under passive lagging
Do bigger batches and split the boil between the two units, two kegs out of one 40L mash.
Run the first runnings into the 30L, then sparge heavily in the 40L, hoist the bag and do parti-gyle batches with a strong ale in the 30 and a small beer in the 40...

My head spinneth :blink:

PS can someone post the URL for the correct ebay page?

 

[chappo1970]

Edit: man at that price I'm going to order one myself as a general hot water supply around the brewery:

Heat up the initial strike water for the 40L urn. Why reduce the life of a 300 dollar item when the fifty buck urn can do the slave work

Well there you go Mr 180 degree spin around. No, No Chappo I won't need two shelves on my brewing rig! Are you mad Chappo? This BIAB not 3V brewing! <_< :lol:

 

[InCider]

Please wear appropriate protective wear like thick gloves, full length pants and enclosed shoes. Hot liquids at those temps will burn you and will burn you very badly very quickly. Also the cube will quickly match the temp of the water your dropping in and playing hot potato with essentially 20kgs of dead weight is not nearly as much fun as it sounds. :icon_cheers:

Just another couple of tips and 2c B.


Chappo

From the Chappo Manor Book of "Do as I say, not as I do" I wore my best (foot) thongs brewing at your place!

 

[chappo1970]

From the Chappo Manor Book of "Do as I say, not as I do" I wore my best (foot) thongs brewing at your place!

<_< Secrets InCider Secrets, remember what happens on brew day stays on brew day? Blabber Mouth <_<

Ahhh but they were double pluggers which are practically a national accredited safety footware of choice! Endorsed by tradies Australia wide.

 

[kenlock]

PS can someone post the URL for the correct ebay page?

Here you go Bribie

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/30L-coffee-urn-praw...id=p3286.c0.m14