Is my Imperial Schwarzbier really a bock?

[NealK]

I decided to brew a stronger version of a schwarzbier recipe that I have brewed a few times with great success. If I were to enter it in a competition should I put it in as a specialist beer ( high alcohol version of a standard style ) or have I actually brewed a different style of beer (bock?) and should it be entered in that category? I am very confused because I don't think I have ever tasted a bock and really lack the experience and knowledge to confidently say this beer is anything other than a strong version on my schwarzbier recipe.
Please help!

Here is my recipe

[SIZE=12.0005pt]2.6kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (1.6 [/SIZE][SIZE=12.0005pt]SRM)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12.0005pt]2.2kg Munich, Light (Joe White) (9.0 SRM)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12.0005pt]1.0kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (1.8 SRM)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12.0005pt]0.25kg Carafa III (Weyermann) (525.0 SRM)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12.0005pt]0.25kg Carawheat (Weyermann) (50.0 SRM)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12.0005pt]25g Perle [6.40 %] [/SIZE][SIZE=12.0005pt]-[/SIZE][SIZE=12.0005pt] Boil 60.0 min[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12.0005pt]10g Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.30 %] [/SIZE][SIZE=12.0005pt]-[/SIZE][SIZE=12.0005pt] Boil 60.0 min[/SIZE][SIZE=12.0005pt]Hop[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12.0005pt]20g Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.30 %] [/SIZE][SIZE=12.0005pt]-[/SIZE][SIZE=12.0005pt] Boil 15.0 min[/SIZE][SIZE=12.0005pt]Hop[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12.0005pt]Bavarian Lager (Wyeast Labs #2206) [124.21 [/SIZE][SIZE=12.0005pt]Yeast[/SIZE] [SIZE=12.0005pt]ml][/SIZE]
[SIZE=12.0005pt]Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM)[/SIZE][SIZE=12.0005pt]Sugar[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12.0005pt]10 gHallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.30 %] [/SIZE][SIZE=12.0005pt]-[/SIZE][SIZE=12.0005pt] Dry Hop 7.0 [/SIZE][SIZE=12.0005pt]Days[/SIZE]

I use a 40l birko and the brew has just been put into a cube to chill.
This will be pitched on to the yeast cake from a german pilsner which will be kegged tomorrow.
[SIZE=12.0005pt]The sugar will be added to the fermenter after primary fermentation has slowed.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12.0005pt]edit - og 1.069 fg 10.16 abv = 7.0% [/SIZE]

 

[Barry]

It depends on a few things. A bock can be dark brown but it usually isn't black so it depends on the colour of your beer.
A bock should have complex maltiness without harshness.
The bitterness should be rather low.
So if it has a fairly full malty mouthfeel and is not to bitter or roasty then it could be a good bock.
If it tastes and looks like a big schwarzbier enter into the specialty class.
The proof is in the drinking.
Hope this helps.

 

[MartinOC]

Expected IBU's? As Barry said, as a bock, you would expect low bitterness.

Water profile??? From my knowledge of Scwarzbiers, the original/true examples are brewed with VERY high mineral-content water (ie. from Saxony - think brewing with mineral water), which comes through in the finished beer with a dry finish, whereas a bock would be expected to have very little "minerally" profile, being much more malt-driven.

As a true "classic" style, you'll be out of place entering your beer as a Schwarzbier & I would expect judges to mark/score it accordingly. If your intent is to "score well" in a competition, therefore, don't expect much if you do that.

For the record, I've always thought of Baltic Porters as "Schwarzbier on steroids", so you might want to consider that as an entry classification??

I'm sure you've made a great beer, so I'd suggest entering it as a "Specialty" & be guided by the judge's feedback. Even if you don't score well & you still like the beer, well then you've got something to complain about "Bloody incompetent judges" etc..etc... :angry:

Good luck with it!

 

[dent]

Leave the sugar out and you got a Munich Dunkel pretty much. Guessing from the amount of carafa in there it will be way too black for a Bock. I think it is a bit light-on malt wise for a Baltic Porter too.

Competition wise I find you are generally not rewarded for failing to commit to making your beer match the chosen style from the start.

 

[Mardoo]

Oh the pain of finding your Swartzbier is actually a Dunkel! I too have felt this sting! But, damn, I liked it and so now I have a dunkel recipe. I decided to just go with it.

 

[manticle]

Find the bjcp or aabc guidelines for each style and read them while you taste it.
Does it taste high alcohol?
You can enter the same beer in different categories too.
Only vic comp with a specialty class is Vicbrew

 

[NealK]

Expected IBU's? As Barry said, as a bock, you would expect low bitterness.

Water profile??? From my knowledge of Scwarzbiers, the original/true examples are brewed with VERY high mineral-content water (ie. from Saxony - think brewing with mineral water), which comes through in the finished beer with a dry finish, whereas a bock would be expected to have very little "minerally" profile, being much more malt-driven.

As a true "classic" style, you'll be out of place entering your beer as a Schwarzbier & I would expect judges to mark/score it accordingly. If your intent is to "score well" in a competition, therefore, don't expect much if you do that.

For the record, I've always thought of Baltic Porters as "Schwarzbier on steroids", so you might want to consider that as an entry classification??

I'm sure you've made a great beer, so I'd suggest entering it as a "Specialty" & be guided by the judge's feedback. Even if you don't score well & you still like the beer, well then you've got something to complain about "Bloody incompetent judges" etc..etc... :angry:

Good luck with it!

ibu will be 24.2.
The beer is chilling in a cube and will go in to the fermenter tomorrow. The recipe is a variation on the schwarzbier recipe that I have brewed 3 times and love the results. I think that will be the competition entry for the schwarzbier category.I am still pretty new to all this but the feedback from the judges is the real prize for me.

 

[NealK]

Find the bjcp or aabc guidelines for each style and read them while you taste it.
Does it taste high alcohol?
You can enter the same beer in different categories too.
Only vic comp with a specialty class is Vicbrew

I have read and re-read the style guidelines and I realise that I need to try more beers of the styles I am interested in. I am planning to enter a few beers in Vicbrew this year. I entered 3 last year and 1 of them didn't come last! Good feedback helped me notice the flaws in the beers from last year. This year cant fail to be an improvement on last year :lol:

 

[manticle]

Hope you get a good judge who makes an effort. Some feedback can be useless ( or not given).
I've had great, detailed feedback and worse than average from judges who should know better. Got judges in the nats in 2011 not even fill out their name which was disappointing.
That said, depending on the size of the flight, etc, it can get pretty exhausting.

 

[pressure_tested]

How did this turn out? I'm interested in making an imperial shwarzbier even though I have no knowledge of the style. It's an oktoberfest challenge and I want something special in the dark lagery zone. Maybe with a bit of chocolatey flavour but light and lagery? Am I on the right track with shwarzbier?

 

[NealK]

Imperial schwarzbier isn't really a style. The original recipe (without the sugar to bump up the alcohol) is a great beer if you can keep the fermentation temp at about 10 degrees.
I did this as an experiment and it was drinkable but not as good as the original.
The original recipe was from Beer & Brewer magazine and I think it was done by Brendan O'Sullivan.
I hope this helps.
Neal