Iodophor Pitfalls

[johnno]

Anyway thats why I ended up buying the stuff from ESB, and just to add, If you are still looking to save money on a sanatiser after paying $25 for 1 litre of Iodophor that will make up 1000 litres I think u may need to be looking for another hobbie.

[post="53218"][/post]​

While I dont mind supporting Homebrew shops, in the end they are looking out for Number One. Which is their business. I'm sure they are not doing it just for the love of it .
On the other hand if I can pay $25 and make up 2000 litres of sanitiser, then more power to me.
I'm always looking for ways to save money, nothing more nothing less.
And if I get a better deal than at a HBS I will take it.
More money in my pocket always makes me feel better.

cheers
johnno

 

[Ross]

hmm, thanks Ross. My paranoia deepens....

I use the Morgans variety and I'm yet to notice any activity at all when I use it.

[post="53055"][/post]​

Goat,

Don't panic, at the very low dilution of the Morgans product, visible signs are not reliable.

With 1000L for $22 - I intend to discard after a few uses anyway...

 

[shmick]

Anybody been supplied watered-down Iodophor from their HBS?

Went to buy some on the w/e and was told I would have to wait while they mixed it up :blink:

They then tried to flog me an overpriced tub of Sodium Met instead <_< .

They finally mixed the Iodophor but wouldn't (couldn't) tell me what strength it was, but said to use 10ml per litre.
I mentioned the usual strength should be used at 1ml per litre and was told:

"YOU can't buy it at that strength, you're not allowed - only home brew shops can buy it at that strength!"

$8 for 250ml bottle of the 10:1 diluted stuff I feel ripped-off 10:1 also. :angry:

No idea what they diluted it with either - tap water?

Might dump the stuff and mail order ESB.

LHBS lost another customer.

 

[SJW]

Sounds like a good idea SHMICK. After reading the attachment from an ealier post on this thread they say that Iodophor starts to break down once diluted. I don't know what the pre diluted concentration is but i can say it's as black/blood red as SIN. Once diluted the yellow/orange tinge only lasts about 12 to 24 hours while it is active. Do what I did and go the mail order from ESB and brush that HBS.


stephen

 

[Steve Lacey]

Do what I did and go the mail order from ESB and brush that HBS

[post="55056"][/post]​

To be honest, I'd be thinking of going one step further than just brushing the HBS. I'd be demanding to know exactly what product they are getting and exactly what they are doing to it and then determining whether that is legal/ethical. And if they are not forthcoming with the information, I'd be reporting them to someone...Let's not beat around the bush here. If they are doing what you suspect they re doing it is, a) ripping off consumers, b) possibly illegal, and c) possibly destroying the efficacy of the product, making it an even bigger rort. No retailer should be allowed to get away with things like that, regardless of what industry it is. It is bad for the hobby and bad for the home brew industry. But note, my little rant here requires getting the facts completely straight first, perhaps also confronting the shop with those facts to give 'em an opportunity to cease and desist.

Steve

 

[Ross]

So is ESB packaging any of it's own goods? Certainly looks like it to me!!
As far as I've seen, every homebrew store I've visited is repacking or mixing their own lines of product, whether it be hops, sanitisers, wood chips, brew enhancers essences, chemicals for water adjustments etc... & I doubt many hold the necessary licences (where required) to be doing this legally by the letter of the law - in much the same way that they are selling "water purifiers" but not stills!!! This is business & the owners take risks, but are invaribly trying to give the customer what he wants. - We the consumer have the ultimate say with our wallets - If you are not happy with the product supplied, then buy elsewhere.
However, if you believe the product being sold is dangerous or being misrepresented, then by all means be encouraged to act & report the offenders...

 

[johnno]

I still want to know how much Phosphoric acid and betadine you need to mix to make your own Iodophor clone.
Any scientists , mad or other, on the site?

cheers
johnno

 

[PostModern]

<snip>

They finally mixed the Iodophor but wouldn't (couldn't) tell me what strength it was, but said to use 10ml per litre.
I mentioned the usual strength should be used at 1ml per litre...

<snip>

[post="55042"][/post]​

He was selling you something for use at 10ml/L for $8 but he told you the recommended dilution and the price. Dodgy but on the white side of the grey line, I reckon. (I am not a lawyer) He's just selling you something for 10 times what others sell it for, but he told you what the working strength was, he didn't represent it as being the same strength as other HBS's. The mathematics was up to you before you handed over the cash. If your custom was only worth $8 to him, I think you'd be better off shopping elsewhere.

 

[shmick]

[post="55042"][/post]​

[/quote]

He was selling you something for use at 10ml/L for $8 but he told you the recommended dilution and the price. Dodgy but on the white side of the grey line, I reckon. (I am not a lawyer) He's just selling you something for 10 times what others sell it for, but he told you what the working strength was, he didn't represent it as being the same strength as other HBS's. The mathematics was up to you before you handed over the cash. If your custom was only worth $8 to him, I think you'd be better off shopping elsewhere.

[post="55194"][/post]​

[/quote]

I pretty much hold the same view PM, otherwise I would have taken it a lot further.
I don't mind paying a 'bit' extra to support local businesses in order to promote our craft - it can only help in the long run. However it can be frustrating when you are treated like you are completely ignorant and misinformed - especially by somebody who does not know themselves.

BTW this HBS also sell the product mail order without any indication of strength.
I would have been mighty PO'd if I had bought it that way. B)

 

[glenos]

I have just found and read this topic, that was an effort for a Sunday morning.
Iodine solutions:

I still want to know how much Phosphoric acid and betadine you need to mix to make your own Iodophor clone.
Any scientists , mad or other, on the site?

Yes me, a Chemist not a pharmacist, I have a 15mL bottle of Amcal antiseptic liquid (Iodine Solution, Betadine) on my desk and it is 1% (10g/L) available iodine, fantastic stuff for minor cuts, sore apply direct to skin, and yes it is dark brown. The colour is form the iodine in solution, which breaks down when exposed to light.

Based on the MSDS attached about 50 posts ago, you would need:
40g of Phosphoric Acid and 35g of this iodine solution stuff made uoto 1L in de-ionised water. The 3.5g of iodine soln is because it is 10% povidne iodine which is equivalent to 1% iodine and the MSDS states 0.35% in final solution.

The link to the Vet chemicals site is a different recipe and t you would need 120g of iodine in solution (this would require 1200ml of Iodine solution) and 252g of phosphoric acid to 1 L, this is approx 40x the strength of the MSDS, this would probably be taken care of in the dilution instructions. You can not make this using the iodine solution I have as there is too much iodine required, ie more then the final volume.
** the final volume is 1L, not 1L plus the other ingredients.

The iodine solution was $10 for 15mL and I don't know where you would get phosphoric acid from. I have some but it is for removing rust from steel, and I would want it in my fermenter. I have access to analytical grade ortho-phosphoric acid, I use it everyday at work. I also have access to Iodine and potassium iodide which I can make iodine solutions out of, home made iodophor here I come.

BTW, to dissolve iodine into water you need to dissolve some KI first as the Iodide ions assist in dissolving the Iodine, otherwise Iodine is practically insoluble in water.

EDIT - concertration calcs were wrong

 

[glenos]

Hydrogen peroxide solution:
I haven't used this stuff much, but I know a little bit about it.

Everytime I have seen/used it in a lab it was stored in the fridge, the reason is:
2.H2O2 = 2H2O + O2 or 2 hydrogen peroxide molecules dissociates to water and oxygen and the lower temperature slows this down.

it is a very powerful oxidiser, I remember using it at uni and 'burning' my skin with it. My skin went white, like paper and peel off a few days later, I was too stupid to wear gloves, fortunately it was only my finger tips. I have also seen it used in aseptic packaging in UHT milk processing lines, it breaks down almost instantly, leaving water.

One final comment on both of these sanitisers is, they are quite aggressive chemicals and will kill the bugs for you, used correctly they are quite safe.

I would not buy them in large quantities for a couple of reasons,
1. they go off and the saving of buying in bulk will soon be outweighed if your sanitiser is little more then a water dissolved in water solution.
2. large quantities of chemicals and the home environment do not mix. a big splash in the eye or down the guts would not be a fun experience.

 

[PostModern]

2. large quantities of chemicals and the home environment do not mix. a big splash in the eye or down the guts would not be a fun experience.

Reminds me of the poem:

Little Willie was a chemist
But now Willie is no more
For what he thought was H2O
Was H2SO4

Good advice to keep dangerous chemicals out of the house. Anyone after 4 litres of HCl? Scotty?

 

[bigfridge]

Reminds me of the poem:

Little Willie was a chemist
But now Willie is no more
For what he thought was H2O
Was H2SO4

Good advice to keep dangerous chemicals out of the house. Anyone after 4 litres of HCl? Scotty?

PoMo,

Another old saying is ......

"Scotty and Dangerous chemicals don't mix" - well no too safely anyway

 

[Keifer]

I use iodophor at 1ml to 1litre in a spray bottle all the time. should i not be getting it on my skin (i spray my hands to reduce infection possibility) or breathing in small amounts of spray in the air (accidentally) ?

How dangerous is properly diluted iodophor to humans?

 

[Darren]

Reminds me of the poem:

Little Willie was a chemist
But now Willie is no more
For what he thought was H2O
Was H2SO4

Good advice to keep dangerous chemicals out of the house. Anyone after 4 litres of HCl? Scotty?

OK, spill the beans about the HCl, Post modern!!!.

H202 will be nastier quicker. (I only know this as I have spilled both HCl and H202 on my bare hands). The acid i walked/ran to a tap (after wiping most of it off) and washed my hands. To my surprise nothing happened.

When ever I have spilled H202 on my hands the area has gone instantly white (as glenos posted earlier)

Be careful out there. The more concentrated a chemical is the more likely it will cause damage to you or your loved ones.

cheers

Darren

Oh yeah, I thought iodophore was iodine linked to a polymer of some sort, rather than a mixture of potassium iodide. Helps with stability of the product if I remember correctly?? I have some vague recollections also, that mixing iodine solutions (and allowing to dry) is explosive :huh:

cheers

Darren

 

[Jim_Levet]

Iodophor is so "Old School".
I hope you rinse thoroughly!
James

 

[glenos]

I use iodophor at 1ml to 1litre in a spray bottle all the time. should i not be getting it on my skin (i spray my hands to reduce infection possibility) or breathing in small amounts of spray in the air (accidentally) ?

How dangerous is properly diluted iodophor to humans?

It's fine, I have been putting the 1% iodine solution directly onto my skin, the only warning is not to use it if you are sensitive to iodine.

At 1:1000 dilution it would be barely noticable.

Iodophor is a mixture of iodine solution and phosphoric acid.

Povidone is iodine and something else, I have no idea what, it may be a longer chain compound.

The KI I2 solution is the "old school" way of making an iodine solution, povidone is used when applying to cuts as it doesn't sting, I think an KI solution would be a bit sharp.

 

[danbeer]

Oh yeah, I thought iodophore was iodine linked to a polymer of some sort, rather than a mixture of potassium iodide. Helps with stability of the product if I remember correctly?? I have some vague recollections also, that mixing iodine solutions (and allowing to dry) is explosive :huh:

cheers

Darren

Perhaps you're thinking of ammonia + iodine?

Produces ammonia tri-iodite. Can explode just from looking at it the wrong way. Best avoided.

 

[Darren]

Perhaps you're thinking of ammonia + iodine?

Produces ammonia tri-iodite. Can explode just from looking at it the wrong way. Best avoided.

Hey Dan,

I dont remember ammonia being added. Ammonia has a very distictive smell to it. It was just two different iodones.

The crystals were explosive. Not a big bang individually though. Enough to crackle as you would roll a wheel of a lab chair over it. Certainly a whole tray of dried stuff is not the sort of thing you want lying around.

Yeah, I would not mix iodine and ammonia. That is asking for instant trouble

Darren

 

[Tony]

ok change of subjest from the fighting

I use the stuff happily. I have always bought it from ESB in sydney but i have recently........... and sadly found out they are closed down.

where can i get my nice un diluted iodophur from now ????????????

cheers