Innocence Lost To Homebrew Aka How S*#t Is Vb!

[waggastew]

A no doubt familiar story on this forum:

The back story - 'Grew up' drinking VB, Carlton Draught, Melbourne Bitter etc at Uni and early working years. Served me well, like it alot (particularly MB), never had a problem. Worked in the US for a year and got into drinking Euro beers but got homesick for something with more bite (was pre-craft beer revolution over there). Went to the UK for 3 years and drank more Euro's, started to get into a few more 'boutique' offerings (but in retrospect really did not take full advantage of it). Back in Oz a few years, tasted Fat Yak, LCPA, started drinking more Coopers but had Toohey's Extra Dry as the standard fridge filler.

THEN

Got into homebrew, got into hops, got into IPA etc.

NOW

Bought a case of VB on the weekend as I gave away some 6-packs as an extra thank you for a job well done. Had one last night and.......err.......umm....... came to a realisation that I can never go back to this kind of beer. My worst homebrew is about a MUUULLION times nicer. Until I can afford to buy LCPA/CPA as a house beer it looks like I will be homebrewing.

I am kind of tempted to buy some POR to see if you can make a decent beer with it? Anyone done this?

 

[manticle]

Don't blame the hop for VB. VB uses isohop anyway and has given PoR a bad name. Currently fermenting 2 lagers with PoR bittering additions and have definitely tasted some lovely beer which uses fresh PoR flowers. Don't forget Coopers use PoR.

I can sink a can of MB or CD at a barbie or at the pub with friends without wanting to pontificate on the nerdiness of beer but I've never enjoyed VB. Would still prefer over dry/low carb gimmicky bollocks though.

 

[MeLoveBeer]

came to a realisation that I can never go back to this kind of beer

Welcome to the dark side waggastew... there is no turning back :icon_cheers:

 

[Bribie G]

Actually I still like a quickly skulled tallie of MB on a hot day after a power walk up the beach - it has a nice hop overtone without the metallic twang of VB and a genuine malt aftertaste in the burp - I get the feeling that they have just been churning it out since the 1950s with no change in recipe, as opposed to Carlton Draught which has had more reincarnations than Dr Who.

But I know what you mean, I go out to the pokies with SWMBO a couple of times a month and the local has just the usual six suspects on tap, so I get a couple of schooners of XXXX heavy, sit at the Jetsetter machine or Major Money and slam the first one down in about 20 seconds without breathing, then polish off the second one (and any subsequent) in three big pulls over 20 minutes. It's the only way I can drink it nowadays. I think if I had to take little sips I would go green.

Edit: Manticle : CUB inject hop extract on the way to the packing line, they don't actually boil hops in the kettle. However if you read between the lines of posters who work at CUB (no names mentioned) - there is, I understand, more to CUB hop extract than just the isohop. the Carlton / Fosters hop extract facility have been doing hop extracts since the 1970s and isohop is only one component. I'd been figuring out how you could actually get hop character into MB and that's gone a way to answering that question. I think they developed hop extract to give consistency in an era when Aussie hop farming wasn't as sophisticated as it is nowadays. Not being an apologist but many Euro beers such as Oettinger or Bamberger state clearly on their labels "hopsextract" which I take it is hop sex tract.

 

[MeLoveBeer]

But I know what you mean, I go out to the pokies with SWMBO a couple of times a month and the local has just the usual six suspects on tap, so I get a couple of schooners of XXXX heavy, sit at the Jetsetter machine or Major Money and slam the first one down in about 20 seconds without breathing, then polish off the second one (and any subsequent) in three big pulls over 20 minutes. It's the only way I can drink it nowadays. I think if I had to take little sips I would go green.

These days the only reason I go to our local is when the Hawks are playing interstate and the game is televised on foxtel; the taste of Carlton Draft (and lack of alternatives) has almost got SWMBO convinced on getting foxtel so we can drink quality beer on tap, sit on a comfy couch and watch the game at home.

 

[Nick JD]

I've found the best way to make VB is to use an Ale yeast, more spec malts and Amarillo hops.

VB is awesome.

 

[manticle]

Edit: Manticle : CUB inject hop extract on the way to the packing line, they don't actually boil hops in the kettle. However if you read between the lines of posters who work at CUB (no names mentioned) - there is, I understand, more to CUB hop extract than just the isohop. the Carlton / Fosters hop extract facility have been doing hop extracts since the 1970s and isohop is only one component. I'd been figuring out how you could actually get hop character into MB and that's gone a way to answering that question. I think they developed hop extract to give consistency in an era when Aussie hop farming wasn't as sophisticated as it is nowadays. Not being an apologist but many Euro beers such as Oettinger or Bamberger state clearly on their labels "hopsextract" which I take it is hop sex tract.

my main reason for mentioning isohop extract is to prevent the continued malignment of PoR. It's a hop that can be well used or badly used like any other but the fresh stuff is vastly different to the weird twanginess present in Carlton Draught and others.

 

[Bribie G]

my main reason for mentioning isohop extract is to prevent the continued malignment of PoR. It's a hop that can be well used or badly used like any other but the fresh stuff is vastly different to the weird twanginess present in Carlton Draught and others.

Yes manticle.. I have heard that the 'metallic' twang of a lot of the CUB products also has a lot to do with the house "lager" yeasts that are run at low ale temps then allowed to drift up to normal ale temps. A certain TB may be able to confirm.
However I agree that POR in its fresh state is a really spicy hop - actually drinking one now as I'm drinking a keg of Carltonish Aussie Lager, getting it down to half full so I can hit the real clear beer to CPBF a couple off for the QLD comps in a fortnight. :super:

 

[Banshee]

Sorry can't give a good comment for any CUB beer. The only thing I know is that VB stands for Visitors Beer, and then I feel bad offering them that. If I'm correct they bought out Matilda Bay Brewery which do have a couple of good beers but not worth the price they ask. It is cheaper to buy a german wheat rather than Redback and there are better darks out there than Dogbolter.
CUB is after your money not your satisfaction.

 

[RdeVjun]

:icon_offtopic:

so I can hit the real clear beer to CPBF a couple off for the QLD comps in a fortnight. :super:

Whoa bud, hope you're not talking about submission date (28th Aug), i.e. end of this week... Just checking... :unsure:

Might have to drink faster at that rate!

 

[under]

Dont mind CD. Anyone got a recipe?

 

[bignath]

Dont mind CD. Anyone got a recipe?

I'll second the call for a CD recipe.

I wouldn't mind something along the lines of carlton clone. I like to try brewing one and it would be usefull for getting my mates into homebrewing if i could come close to replicating it....

 

[waggastew]

Bribie G - Interesting you say about the many incarnations of CD. I am a southern NSW boy (who'd have guessed given my member name!) and my first few years were drinking ice cold CD in midi's. I agree that it doesn't taste like that anymore, ever since they launched it in Sydney they seemed to have buggered it up. I reckon it tastes very soapy now.....

Manticle - I will defo's give POR a go at some stage. I might try and make a 'fresh' Aussie lager next winter, just for a laugh.

Banshee - Is Dogbolter the same incarnation as when it first appeared in the mid 90's? It was a bit of a revelation back then, a bigger Tooheys Old'ish.

MeLoveBeer - When ever we go to our local now I am usually spend about 2 minutes forlornly looking at the offering on tap. I figure that if I am at the pub I might as well go a tap beer but the offerings not great. Often end up drinking Fat Yak or Wicked Elf (I am a mid-Nth Coast local). Tried Carlton Black last time and it was sh#te.

Melbourne Bitter is definitely the best of the standard bunch though. I actually got into drinking it mainly because no one else in Sydney did. At uni parties if I saw someone else drinking it I knew the feckers had nicked one of mine from the esky!

 

[MeLoveBeer]

Often end up drinking Fat Yak

Half your luck Stew, I'd be quite happy with Fat Yak on tap (anythings got to be better than the usual CUB brews)

 

[waggastew]

Half your luck Stew, I'd be quite happy with Fat Yak on tap (anythings got to be better than the usual CUB brews)

Nah, forgot to say the FY and Wicked Elf is only in bottles. I would be stoked for FY on tap too!

 

[Banshee]

Banshee - Is Dogbolter the same incarnation as when it first appeared in the mid 90's? It was a bit of a revelation back then, a bigger Tooheys Old'ish.

I don't know. I haven't had one for about 7 years. I didn't see it on the shelves for a long time and now it has reappeared. If I remember rightly it had a recognisable crystal malt flavour.
I remember when I was a kid and Redback appeared it was 5.2% then I think CUB took over and to cut cost reduced it to around the 4.7%. I never tried the original Redback but I only know that by reducing the malt the flavour and body reduces but the price didn't reduce.

 

[Bribie G]

Under et al

re Carltonish beers

Not hard, but the problem is that even with an addition of POR that looks totally pathetic you can still end up over hopping it.
Many a time I have looked at the pathetic lonely little bunch of hops waiting to be put into the kettle and thought "you've got to be fn joking" but it still seems to work out ok.

Try:

4000 Pale Australian Pilsener Malt (BB or JW)
330 Carapils

Mash at 66 degrees for 60 mins

600 white sugar in the boil

18g Pride of Ringwood pellets or 20g flowers new season only

60 min boil

dried lager yeast w-34/70 run at around 14 degrees for 2 weeks
Lager for 2 weeks at cold fridge temperature

Gelatine and Polyclar during lagering.

Strangely this general recipe will elucidate "ooooohhhhh did you really make this yourself???????????"
As opposed to serving them an all malt APA bittered to 35 IBU which usually results in "hmmmmmmmmm now THAt's a bit different" <_<

 

[electronicshaman]

What can you get on tap in Wagga that is good? And where would you get it? even the bloody Tourist is a trendy bar now!

edit: eek! Just read you're from Wauchope. Sorry.

 

[waggastew]

Yeah, I flew the nest in 1994 and now only return to visit the family and friends. Funny thing about Wagga is the pub of the moment seems to change every time I go back. Last time I was back I drank at the Farmers Home which used to be a two bar fly's and a 4YO keg of Tooheys OLd kinda place. All I can say is 'Lipstick on a Pig'.

 

[electronicshaman]

I lived there for a few years myself, and likewise, I only visit occasionally to visit my brother and some mates. I was drinking at the Union last time I was there, but that was mainly because it is a short walk from the Tandoori Tavern