Improving beer kit quality?

[rglnz]

Hi there,

I am super new, having only done one kit beer so far, but am keen to learn more and most importantly make some tastier beer… The goal is to get into full grain eventually, but for now I was thinking of doing another kit, with a few extras - bearing in mind I only have the most basic of equipment at this stage - not even a pot.. but will be getting some more stuff soon.

I am thinking of getting a kit, and instead of dextrose, using DME, then dry hopping during the end of fermentation, and using a better quality yeast. Any thoughts on if this would be a good idea? and recommendations for which type of DME/hops/kit combinations that might go well together? (I am NZ based, so will probably get stuff from brewshop.co.nz if that gives you an idea of what I will have available).

Would the method for making this kit variation be the same as for a standard kit i.e. use a few litres of boiling water, to mix up the hopped LME and DME, top up to ~23l, add the yeast, then let it do its thing?

Cheers

 

[damoninja]

I'm fairly new to the process (maybe 3 months in) and have been doing all grain for a little while now.

When I started out, I quickly learnt:
1. Temperature control
2. Temperature control
3. Temperature control
4. Use a better yeast (to suit the beer style), keep the kit yeast for something else.
5. Use good ingredients, including kits

When you want to start adding hops / grains a small 10L or 15L pot will do you fine.

Use DME/LME over dex wherever possible, there's nothing wrong with using a little bit of dex here and there to bump up your ABV if you're not happy with what you've calculated it to.

As far as what goes with what - that's an open ended discussion! Have you seen Ian H's spreadsheet in the sticky thread? Very handy for determining bitterness and colour for desired beer styles.

 

[rglnz]

Thanks heaps for the info. Just one more question to add.. What is a good rule of thumb when substituting DME for dex. I have read in some places that if the kit says 1Kg Dex, then you can just use 1Kg DME, whereas other people will say use 1.2 x the amount of dex etc etc. Also, you mentioned the option to add a little dex to numb up abv. Any good rules of thumb on that for how much to add?

Cheers

 

[Bax]

When I started out, I quickly learnt:
1. Temperature control
2. Temperature control
3. Temperature control
4. Use a better yeast (to suit the beer style), keep the kit yeast for something else.
5. Use good ingredients, including kits

Yes yes yes yes.

My first brew was kit and kilo, fermented at room temp.
My second brew was kit and kilo, fermented at 20 degrees with US05
My third brew was kit and dry malt extract, fermented at 18 degrees with US05
My fourth brew was 2x tins of extract with Dry malt extract and hops fermented at 18 degrees.

Using DME instead of Dextrose has definitely made and improvement.
Better yeast and temperature control also made a huge improvement.
And I've been using bottled water for the majority of my water now, I use either 12 - 15L of bottled water and top up the remaining with my tap water, as it's quite salty and not that pleasant.

As for how much to add, it's probably best if you grab the brew calculator spreadsheet that's on one of these pages. I generally run most of my brews through that calculator and it tells you what kind of beer and what kind of ABV you should expect. From there I decide whether or not I'm going to add anymore DME.

My latest brew was 2x cans of liquid malt and 500g of DME.
The brew before that was 1x can of liquid malt and 1kg of DME and it came out quite strong.

Definitely recommend the spreadsheet.
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/29655-kit-and-extract-beer-spreadsheet/

 

[Bribie G]

It also depends on the style. For an Aussie style lager for example I'd have no problems putting in up to 500g of just plain white sugar plus 500g LDME as that's to style. However other styles work fine on a kilo of Brew Enhancer 2 and yet others benefit from all-malt.

Another good reliable product that is fairly easy to find in Brisbane is Chinese Maltose Syrup for the ridiculous price of $2 for a 500g tub. You'll find it down the Valley in the Asian supermarkets. It's the same molecule as the maltose in malt extract, and resembles a very pale malt extract. Yeast doesn't know the difference and will happily munch away on its preferred food without possibly giving you a twang from either dex or white sugar. However most twang is down to poor temperature control.

When starting out my best beer was a Morgans Stringybark Dark plus a tin of Morgans liquid malt extract. For a dark ale you need more body.

 

[wereprawn]

As above.

Depends on what style of beer you enjoy.

A nice Summer brew may be something like this -

1 can coopers Australian Pale Ale.

1 kg LDME

10 g dry hop of your choice. (Find out the hops used in beers you like)

us-05 yeast

The coopers yeast often imparts a "yeasty taste" to brews , whereas us-05 comes out much cleaner.

To dry hop buy a small , fine, paint straining bag or cut half a leg of the pantyhose of Wife/gf/sister's to use as a dry hop bag.

Remember to boil your hop bag for 10 min to sterilize and to remove dye and volatiles.

 

[wereprawn]

And wait until your krausen (The foamy stuff on top of fermenting beer) has died down a bit , then sterilize hop bag , put desired hops in bag , tie off near top and dump in your brew. Or, even better, take a gravity reading and put the hops in at around 1015.

Leave hops in for 3-7 days.

 

[damoninja]

And wait until your krausen (The foamy stuff on top of fermenting beer) has died down a bit , then sterilize hop bag , put desired hops in bag , tie off near top and dump in your brew. Or, even better, take a gravity reading and put the hops in at around 1015.

Leave hops in for 3-7 days.

I usually dry hop when my fermentation has completely finished based on steady gravity over 2 days.
Generally my ferment schedule is something like below depending what I'm brewing / doing (never exactly like this obviously)

Day 4: take reading (unless still obviously active)
Day 6: take reading (repeat following day if differs from previous reading)
if reading is stable, dry hop if on schedule
Day 7-8: Drop to 1 degree
Day 10-15: Bottle

I always make sure that I get a good 2-3 days dry hopped at brewing temperature before I cold crash, leaving it to crash for no less than 2 days but usually longer.


For example I've got a gluten free beer which is based on sorghum syrup that is now on day 9 or and still has activity preventing me from cold crashing both my brews because they're in the same fridge.

 

[Trevandjo]

Rglnz,

I'm living in China and have mostly moved away from kit beers BUT last month a kiwi mate from work gave me 2 cans of Black rock colonial draught. I used these 2 cans, made up water to 23L and dry hopped with 23g Cascade hops to make a brilliant Kiwi Bitter which is ( or was for about an hour) with all the expats here.

Good luck in your brewing.

 

[Trevandjo]

Meant to add 'a crowd pleaser'

 

[jaypes]

I drastically improved my beer quality by going all grain

Yes a bit more buggering around, but tipping 3 kit brews down the drain forced me to try something better

 

[verysupple]

I drastically improved my beer quality by going all grain

Yes a bit more buggering around, but tipping 3 kit brews down the drain forced me to try something better

Sorry for taking it OT, but does your LHBS not turn over kits very quickly? Were they stale and rank? Did you ferment at 30 C?

I never had a problem when I used kits. There are only two reasons I stopped using them: 1) They're pretty limited style-wise. 2) I just like learning and trying new things so I started full extract then partial mash then AG.

 

[Bribie G]

With any of the liquid tins including kits, freshness is very important. Sadly for LHBSs outlets such as Big W often turn over their tins quicker than the local store and keep them in far better, airconditioned, surroundings. Wish it were otherwise but that's how it often goes. For example a local store, not air conditioned, has its backup boxes of Coopers sitting against the West Wall of the shop in a back passageway where it would have to be 30 degrees most afternoons. Couldn't be doing the yeast sachets much good either.

Worst kit I ever brewed was a Muntons kit from the UK that must have walked to Australia :unsure:

 

[damoninja]

I drastically improved my beer quality by going all grain

Yes a bit more buggering around, but tipping 3 kit brews down the drain forced me to try something better

Sorry for taking it OT, but does your LHBS not turn over kits very quickly? Were they stale and rank? Did you ferment at 30 C?

I never had a problem when I used kits. There are only two reasons I stopped using them: 1) They're pretty limited style-wise. 2) I just like learning and trying new things so I started full extract then partial mash then AG.

I don't think it's OT.

I never had any issues either, I've still a few of each of 3 kit beers in bottles... Some shared with some avid all grain brewers of 20+ years who were very surprised to hear it was from a kit.

The only kit beer I tipped was because I did kit and kilo with white sugar just to see for myself.
Disgusting. The same kit with DME is just fine.

Edit: Have to agree freshness is a thing too.

 

[wereprawn]

I usually dry hop when my fermentation has completely finished based on steady gravity over 2 days.
Generally my ferment schedule is something like below depending what I'm brewing / doing (never exactly like this obviously)

Day 4: take reading (unless still obviously active)
Day 6: take reading (repeat following day if differs from previous reading)
if reading is stable, dry hop if on schedule
Day 7-8: Drop to 1 degree
Day 10-15: Bottle

I always make sure that I get a good 2-3 days dry hopped at brewing temperature before I cold crash, leaving it to crash for no less than 2 days but usually longer.


For example I've got a gluten free beer which is based on sorghum syrup that is now on day 9 or and still has activity preventing me from cold crashing both my brews because they're in the same fridge.

This bloke is a beginner. No boil pot! At a guess - he may not be able to cold crash. But... yeah... wait if you like. You will get more hoppyness .The downside is (unwanted) infection ******* things up.

I've had infections when dry hoping on occasion. None when not. But dry hoping when your desired infection is still active seems to minimize spoilage.

A simple, straightforward way to brew a decent beer ,with limited equipment and ingredients seems to be what is asked for?

 

[damoninja]

This bloke is a beginner. No boil pot! At a guess - he may not be able to cold crash. But... yeah... wait if you like. You will get more hoppyness .The downside is (unwanted) infection ******* things up.

I've had infections when dry hoping on occasion. None when not. But dry hoping when your desired infection is still active seems to minimize spoilage.

A simple, straightforward way to brew a decent beer ,with limited equipment and ingredients seems to be what is asked for?

Hah yeah i know, I was just sharing what I do.

Everyone ever seems to say infections from dry hopping doesn't happen since hops are used as a preservative. interesting.

 

[wereprawn]

Everyone ever seems to say infections from dry hopping doesn't happen since hops are used as a preservative. interesting.

It happens on the odd occasion. Anti-bacterial properties in hops from what I've heard. Wild yeast can still infect your brew though.

 

[rglnz]

Thanks for all the help guys - heaps of learning just reading your comments. Just one last question before I dive in (which may sound stupid..) If I am using DME instead of Dex, do I need to mix it at a certain temp? or can I just mix it with hot/boiling water along with my tin of goop at the start, then top up with water to 23l

 

[Yob]

Mixing cold is easier and avoids clumping, mix cold then boil.

 

[jongylary]

i'm very new to this all to- my LHBS set me up with a kit receipe for a stone and wood pale ale
which uses
1 x 1.7kg can coopers mexican cerveza
1 x 1.5kg coopers Wheat LME
1 x 25g galaxy hops
1 x 25g galaxy hops
and before i could ask he was shoving 1 packet of us05 yeast in my hand


few basic questions the first batch of hops are said to be sat in a hop stocking after i dissolve the malt and can of coopers in 2 lts of water - how long should i keep the light boil going with the hops in? or should i turn the heat off and let sit for saY 15-20 MINS BEFORE POURING INTO THE FERMENTER?


the other hops are for dry hopping after day 3 - or when fermenting subsides

this is the first time i have used hops - not something i recall from the days watching my old man making kit and kilos when i was growing up
a few questions
when putting into the stocking should i dry and crush/split the hops?
should i soak them over night in water and add hops and water to boil mixture

when dry hopping anyting i should be trying to maxamise the use?
Regards
Jongylary