Huge beers

[Goose]

I've not attempted a seriously big AG beer before hence a general question for the experts, when making big beers ie 8% and above, should I use DME instead of a ton of additional grains to get to target OG ?

Reason I ask is that my efficiency tends to suffer as my target OG rises (at least in my system) and I'm pondering alternatives.

Recipe I had in mind is calling for pretty much the limit of my mash tun. Targetting fruit overtones dominated by citrus. I dialled down my usual efficiency by around 8% as a guess as to what it might be with this grain bill.

Any ideas welcome.

Big Beer

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 44.50 l
Boil Size: 53.16 l
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 48.36 l
Final Bottling Vol: 43.00 l
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage
Date:
Brewer: Goose
Asst Brewer:
Equipment: BrewMagic 45 Litre
Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 73.1 %
Taste Rating: 30.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU

13.66 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (3.9 EBC) Grain 1 76.5 %
2.65 kg Wheat Malt, Ger (3.9 EBC) Grain 2 14.9 %
0.79 kg Munich Malt (17.7 EBC) Grain 3 4.4 %
0.75 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (118.2 EBC) Grain 4 4.2 %
90.00 g Centennial [8.68 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 33.5 IBUs
50.00 g Galena [12.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 26.8 IBUs
20.00 g Galena [12.50 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 7 9.8 IBUs
40.00 g Galena [12.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 8 16.5 IBUs
20.00 g Galena [12.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 9 8.2 IBUs
20.00 g Galena [12.50 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 10 6.5 IBUs

3.9 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml] Yeast 11 -

50.00 g Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
50.00 g Galena [12.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
50.00 g Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 14 0.0 IBUs

Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color
Est Original Gravity: 1.088 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.023 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.5 %
Bitterness: 101.2 IBUs
Est Color: 19.1 EBC
Measured Original Gravity: 1.079 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 9.1 %
Calories: 753.8 kcal/l
Mash Profile
Mash Name: Single Infusion, Full Body
Sparge Water: 39.43 l
Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE
Total Grain Weight: 17.87 kg
Grain Temperature: 28.0 C
Tun Temperature: 28.0 C
Mash PH: 5.20
Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 17.61 l of water at 84.7 C 68.9 C 45 min
Mash Out Add 7.04 l of water at 98.6 C 75.6 C 10 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 39.43 l water at 75.6 C
Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Carbonation and Storage
Carbonation Type: Keg
Pressure/Weight: 86.48 KPA
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 7.2 C
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage
Volumes of CO2: 2.3
Carbonation Used: Keg with 86.48 KPA
Age for: 30.00 days
Storage Temperature: 18.3 C
Notes

 

[TheWiggman]

A simple easy way to get higher gravities is to extend the boil. For an EBW or similar this works towards darkening the brew and though there is conjecture about it, affecting the flavour as well. Otherwise cut down on the sparge at the sacrifice of efficiency to get the OG higher for a standard boil length.
If you're limited by the mash tun volume then there's not much you can do there - either top up with extract or reduce your batch volume.

 

[Goose]

cheers wiggs.

Well its a 58 litre keggle type mash tun, I should be able to get nearly 18 kg of grain in there.

Only one way to be sure, to try it.

 

[Velu]

if you were worried about hitting your numbers you could try 2 consecutive mashes, taking only the first runnings from each, or try a reiterated mash. Extra time required of course, but they are things I've used to get high gravity wort. Or just add some sugar...

 

[Yob]

reiterated mashing... do it.

The numbers are almost cumulative, there is a bit of waste but in the grand scheme it matters little.. heres a link to read through

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/19137-reiterated-mashing/

 

[Fraser's BRB]

cheers wiggs.

Well its a 58 litre keggle type mash tun, I should be able to get nearly 18 kg of grain in there.

Only one way to be sure, to try it.

Wouldn't 18kg of grain lead to a very thick mash? I'm far from expert on this one, but I'm keen to hear the answer as I have a similar size MT.

As a rule I aim for around 3:1 water to grain in my mash which comes out at 54 litres, plus the grain?

 

[mofox1]

Wouldn't 18kg of grain lead to a very thick mash? I'm far from expert on this one, but I'm keen to hear the answer as I have a similar size MT.

As a rule I aim for around 3:1 water to grain in my mash which comes out at 54 litres, plus the grain?

I can get 14kg in my 46L cube shaped esky, at around 2.5L/kg - that's filled to the brim.

Looks like 18kg in a 58L vessel is around the same ratios. I used to use the "Can I mash it?" calc on http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml... now I just remember that 14kg is my max, and wing the water amounts until it looks/feels right.

 

[Blind Dog]

reiterated mashing... do it.

The numbers are almost cumulative, there is a bit of waste but in the grand scheme it matters little.. heres a link to read through

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/19137-reiterated-mashing/

+1 for a reiterated mash. Its simple, only a smidge of extra work (but an hour or so extra waiting) and, in my experience, has (in my experience using a BM, YMMV) little effect on overall efficiency.

 

[Grainer]

8%... thats low abv isnt it?

 

[MastersBrewery]

8%... thats low abv isnt it?

that'll be the coffee (stout) we'll be having with breakfast in Shep come july 9.

 

[Grainer]

One day, I will make a real RIS for the case swap... ! one that will challenge you all ! I got something in.mind but it will take about an year but it will be epic!

 

[MastersBrewery]

One day, I will make a real RIS for the case swap... ! one that will challenge you all ! I got something in.mind but it will take about an year but it will be epic!

hmmm .... I can see a common theme emerging...... and challenge you say sir? Perhaps a new thread is in order. I'm sure are a few posters willing to take on a 16%+ abv RIS.
You should know by now you can't throw a gauntlet of any kind around here.

Challenge accepted breakfast beers for Vic 2017 xmas swap

 

[Killer Brew]

Interesting thread. Can I just confirm that I understand the process correctly with an example?

1) Using my Grainfather I'm looking to make 22L of ~13% ABV beer requiring 12kg of grain.
2) I split the grain bill in half (does it need to be split exactly or can I bundle all specialty grains in one half?)
3) Mash in half the grain bill with the normal ratio of water, mash, drain and then sparge into a separate vessel and retain
4) Mash in the other half of the grain into the original mash liquor and complete mash schedule
5) Sparge using reheated sparge runnings from initial batch and combine into the Grainfather for boil.

Do i have this right? Feels like volume may come up short due to absorption.

 

[barls]

I've got a doppelbock that should be around 17 if it ferments out enough

 

[Dan Pratt]

Hey,

Above have covered the post questions but I'm interested in the hop schedule. It's seems really excessive for bittering additions? Achieving 100ibu without a single last addition seems blizzard with a somewhat dank hop like galena, it would be better served late.

As a suggestion only, take All the galena and add it at 5mins, if the Ibu is not high enough maybe at 10mins but definitely late in the boil.

Also Extend the boil to 90mins and use less centennial at 90mins to get 33ibu and then make a single middle addition with centennial at 45mins.

Maybe it's no chill.

 

[Blind Dog]

In a BM I split the grain bill approx in half, but with all spec grain in the 2nd half. First mash is only taken to the main sacc rest temp and after that step is complete, I sparge with enough water (at that temp) to replace water absorbed by the grain. Dump grain and start 2nd mash which starts at main sacc rest temp and is taken through to mash out and then sparged with enough water to bring me up to pre boil volume. Then ramped up to boil and proceed as normal. I sparge with the malt pipe lifted straight into the BM. Pretty sure a similar process would work for the grainfather.

It adds about an hour to the brew schedule, but it's all pretty much additional waiting time as the 2nd mash proceeds

 

[Killer Brew]

In a BM I split the grain bill approx in half, but with all spec grain in the 2nd half. First mash is only taken to the main sacc rest temp and after that step is complete, I sparge with enough water (at that temp) to replace water absorbed by the grain. Dump grain and start 2nd mash which starts at main sacc rest temp and is taken through to mash out and then sparged with enough water to bring me up to pre boil volume. Then ramped up to boil and proceed as normal. I sparge with the malt pipe lifted straight into the BM. Pretty sure a similar process would work for the grainfather.

It adds about an hour to the brew schedule, but it's all pretty much additional waiting time as the 2nd mash proceeds

Got it, that is even easier! And yes the malt pipe sits above the kettle for sparge in the GF. Cheers.

 

[Killer Brew]

In a BM I split the grain bill approx in half, but with all spec grain in the 2nd half. First mash is only taken to the main sacc rest temp and after that step is complete, I sparge with enough water (at that temp) to replace water absorbed by the grain. Dump grain and start 2nd mash which starts at main sacc rest temp and is taken through to mash out and then sparged with enough water to bring me up to pre boil volume. Then ramped up to boil and proceed as normal. I sparge with the malt pipe lifted straight into the BM. Pretty sure a similar process would work for the grainfather.

It adds about an hour to the brew schedule, but it's all pretty much additional waiting time as the 2nd mash proceeds

Got it, that is even easier! And yes the malt pipe sits above the kettle for sparge in the GF. Cheers.

 

[Grainer]

hmmm .... I can see a common theme emerging...... and challenge you say sir? Perhaps a new thread is in order. I'm sure are a few posters willing to take on a 16%+ abv RIS.
You should know by now you can't throw a gauntlet of any kind around here.

Challenge accepted breakfast beers for Vic 2017 xmas swap

Meh.. the last 2 RIS I have done have been 16.5% .. pathetic.. they are standard around here. the next one lined up in a 28% Barleywine..

 

[MastersBrewery]

The issue becomes how the hell do you measure that? Honey refrac?