How To - Gelatine

[cdbrown]

I use the mckenzies unflavoured gelatine on all my brews now (except for the weizen). Once ferment has finished, chill in the primary to drop as much out of suspension. Mix up 2 teaspoons gelatine in cup of near boiling water, tip it into spare fermenter. Rack from primary to spare. A couple of days latter chuck in some polyclar to reduce chill haze, then the following day transfer to keg and bottles. Works a treat.

 

[buttersd70]

Ive read Agar is used commercially somewhere to fine beer or fruit juice. Its out there somewhere on the interwebs

It seems you're right....a bit of a search turned up a few sources....

In the fining of juices, alcoholic beverages
and vinegars, Agar-Agar has shown a perfect
functionality as a flocculating agent
and is reported to be even better than gelatine
for this purpose.

from http://www.harnisch.com/well/files/pdf/208/agaragar.pdf

and

There are other fining agents that have traditionally been used, including blood, agar-agar, and occasionally milk. Blood is tough to get and to keep fresh. Agar-agar is a good fining agent, but can be very expensive. Gelatin works just as well and is cheap. Milk is mentioned in some wine-making books under the heading of casein, which is the protein compound responsible for the fining action.

from [URL="http://makewine.com/winemaking/finishing/fining/"]http://makewine.com/winemaking/finishing/fining/[/URL]

Hmmm. Blood as a fining agent....Dexter Dark Ale, anyone? :lol:

 

[Fourstar]

Agar-agar is a good fining agent, but can be very expensive.

Ha, Since when? powdered form is like 90 cents a packet. (does me 1L worth of slants~) or a big wad of the raw seaweed form at the local asian grocer was around 2 dollars. I wonder how you would use it? maybe like gelatine leaf?

Maybe there is an agar agar recession we dont know about! :lol:

Another thing of interest would be how much we would use. i would not agree it would be te same as gelatine as 1 sachet is around 12 grams and almost instantly sets 1L of wort.

 

[buttersd70]

Ha, Since when? powdered form is like 90 cents a packet. (does me 1L worth of slants~) or a big wad of the raw seaweed form at the local asian grocer was around 2 dollars. I wonder how you would use it? maybe like gelatine leaf?

Maybe there is an agar agar recession we dont know about! :lol:

Another thing of interest would be how much we would use. i would not agree it would be te same as gelatine as 1 sachet is around 12 grams and almost instantly sets 1L of wort.

Yeah, wacky yanks, I think...

You're right about the quantity needing to be much less....can't remember how much I used for my slants, but it certainly wasn't a full pack...It sets a hell of a lot better than geletine. Maybe 2g, to throw a number off the top of my head with no real logic or reason?

 

[Fourstar]

Yeah, wacky yanks, I think...

You're right about the quantity needing to be much less....can't remember how much I used for my slants, but it certainly wasn't a full pack...

yeah i dropped my whole agar pack into 250g of water as i was expecting the same agar:water ratio... well it set like concrete. had to thin it out with 1L and even then it set really quickly after taking them out of the steam/pressure bath.

 

[petesbrew]

I just used Gelatin in a KnK Amarillo APA. It was initially very cloudy thanks to hops & grain sediment.
Well, it's dropped everything out, and the sample is nice and clear, however it's definitely stripped out a lot of flavour as well.
Gave it a little top up with 10g more amarillo, and will bottle tomorrow night.

I reckon I'll leave the gelatin out from now on. I usually find an extra week in the fermenter usually does the job okay.

 

[reviled]

Well, it's dropped everything out, and the sample is nice and clear, however it's definitely stripped out a lot of flavour as well.

What sort of flavours do you reckon its stripped out? I cant say ive noticed this apart from it getting rid of the 'yeastie' taste :unsure:

 

[petesbrew]

What sort of flavours do you reckon its stripped out? I cant say ive noticed this apart from it getting rid of the 'yeastie' taste :unsure:

Pretty much body from the crystal grain, hop flavour - it's still there, but just not in your face anymore. There was up to 50g Amarillo in it... an inefficient use of a good hop, in hindsight, as it was mainly late addition.
Can't really say... could be that "yeasty" taste.
It's just a pale comparison of what it was...

oh well, live and learn. The gelatin did what it was supposed to.

 

[bconnery]

my girlfriend is a vego, and so are a few of her friends...Well - more beer for me is all I can say.

I will try agar-agar one day. But I have never tried gelatin before, so I have to compare it...I have McKenzie's Gelatin in my cupboard (only about 3 months old). Can I use this - well more precise, will it impart any 'meat' flavour at all. I am asking this because someone posted earlier saying they prefer the other brand as McKenzie's adds a 'beefy' flavour.

I will try both (agar and gelatin) and hopefully post a side by side.

Cheers
Phil

I have a couple of vegan friends and I inform them before hand and also let them know that the amount of any remaining in the finished beer is negligible, if any.
They also drank a lot in the UK where they favour the use of fish bladders so they can't be too fussy
I'd be interested in agar though so look forward to hearing about that...

 

[Fourstar]

Well, it's dropped everything out, and the sample is nice and clear, however it's definitely stripped out a lot of flavour as well.

Hey petesbrew, i think this may be a one-off misconception. Gelatine only strips the protiens, loose hop material and yeast out of suspension and helps them 'set' on the bottom of the keg. Unless you mean is taken away a 'dry hop flavour or a yeast/hop material flavour' which it would and thats the whole point of this exercise.

I gelatined around 10 beers now with no ill-effects of flavour being stripped out. This is also a practise done by Macros worldwide using gelatine, agar and other finning products like fish swim bladders

Sucks you didt have a positive experience. Cheers!

 

[Fourstar]

I'd be interested in agar though so look forward to hearing about that...

Im thinking of using agar in my next batch too. Still trying to mull up the ratios to use. maybe 2g:L like wen making slants?

 

[petesbrew]

Hey petesbrew, i think this may be a one-off misconception. Gelatine only strips the protiens, loose hop material and yeast out of suspension and helps them 'set' on the bottom of the keg. Unless you mean is taken away a 'dry hop flavour or a yeast/hop material flavour' which it would and thats the whole point of this exercise.

I gelatined around 10 beers now with no ill-effects of flavour being stripped out. This is also a practise done by Macros worldwide using gelatine, agar and other finning products like fish swim bladders

Sucks you didt have a positive experience. Cheers!

Hey fourstar, Well, my beer is now crystal clear, and it still tastes okay, so yeah it did it's job!
Not too worried here. I have used gelatin before in the past, and been happy with it.
Maybe it's just my tastes are changing.
RDWHAHB :icon_chickcheers:

 

[buttersd70]

Im thinking of using agar in my next batch too. Still trying to mull up the ratios to use. maybe 2g:L like wen making slants?

I wouldn't be going 2g/L :blink:

Given that gelatine is used at a rate of 1-2tsp, how many grams is that? about 10g max, I would think. 2g/L x 20L = 40g....thats a hell of a lot of agar

2g/10L sounds a bit more like it, I would have thought. so about 3/4-1tsp a batch....don't know for sure, just throwing it out there.

 

[Fourstar]

I wouldn't be going 2g/L :blink:

Given that gelatine is used at a rate of 1-2tsp, how many grams is that? about 10g max, I would think. 2g/L x 20L = 40g....thats a hell of a lot of agar

2g/10L sounds a bit more like it, I would have thought. so about 3/4-1tsp a batch....don't know for sure, just throwing it out there.

Crap, i obviously didn think thru my post I think i just typed what i was thinking, slant ratio rates... Idiot

yep.... a keg of beer set like jello... niiice.

If only anyone knew the gelling rates of gelatine and agar in water we could get an idea as to what ratio we should be using.


maybe a 1/2 teaspoon in a keg?!?

 

[Bribie G]

RE agar: I was in the Chinese supermarket yesterday and they have big packets of long loose silky agar 'threads' that look a bit like those rice noodles for very few dollars. Ingredients: agar. Didn't take too much notice of the price as I'm happy with gelatine but if anyone is near a chinese place it's worth checking out.

 

[SJW]

I find it hard to beleive that using Gelatine would strip out any flavours. In fact I would go so far as to say that it would not, esspecially when used as recomended (1 or 2 teaspoons mixed with near boiling water and added to the keg or secondary). I use Gelatine in everything I brew bar Wheat beers and it makes no noticable diff to the beer. IMO of coarse.


Steve

 

[Fourstar]

I find it hard to beleive that using Gelatine would strip out any flavours. In fact I would go so far as to say that it would not, esspecially when used as recomended (1 or 2 teaspoons mixed with near boiling water and added to the keg or secondary). I use Gelatine in everything I brew bar Wheat beers and it makes no noticable diff to the beer. IMO of coarse.

Steve

As i noted Steve, the only thing it would 'strip out' flavour wise would be hop particles and excess yeast. If you dont have these going into your mouth, you definitely wont taste them!

 

[SJW]

Good point!

 

[Bribie G]

I have had people say that Nottingham for example stripped out their hop additions. The question is where did they get stripped to? If the yeast itself had 'absorbed' the essential oils then if any yeast cells remained in suspension the beer would presumably taste a bit different to a totally clear version after priming ?

 

[jbirbeck]

every time you use fining you take something out of the beer, , proteins, yeast etc etc. Taking them out will affect the flavour profile in some way. It could also strip colour and body. The issue is whether you can notice the impact when you use it. in winemaking they are very careful to ensure the fining level is the absolute minimum to achieve the desired result, too much and you can strip flavour and/or get some new off flavours and too little it doesn't do the job. Of course the winemakers may be wrong...