How To - Gelatine

[Bribie G]

I don't have refrigeration for my fermenter and my success has been limited. My bottles still have sediment, but it sets at the bottom of the bottle in the fridge. If I pour while the bottle is cold, the beer is clear but if I pour any later the sediment is stirred up.

This is known as 'fluffy bottoms' and is a characteristic of gelatine if it's used too close to bottling time. Far better to add the gelatine to the fermenter and let it settle right out, then bottle. You should get almost clear beer on bottling with minimal sediment. Don't worry about the beer being too clear on bottling, there will still be enough yeast cells for the bottle conditioning.

 

[hazard]

I don't have refrigeration for my fermenter and my success has been limited. My bottles still have sediment, but it sets at the bottom of the bottle in the fridge. If I pour while the bottle is cold, the beer is clear but if I pour any later the sediment is stirred up.

I guess thee is a simple answer here - why would you pour a beer if it was warm???

I only recently tried fining and chilling, and can confirm BribieG's comments above. My process (for a partial mash Dr Smurto Landlord) with extract) was:
- after 1 week in primary, racked to secondary - 1 teaspoon of gelatine dissolved in a cup of warm water added to secondary before racking, to mix it in.
- after another week (to reach FG), secondary fermentor put in fridge at 5 deg.
- after another week, take out of fridge, rack and bulk prime and bottle

This was bottled 4 weeks ago. After 1 week there was hardly any carbonation, after 2 weeks it was getting better now it is fine - so it does carb up, but needs extra time. The beer is very clear, the clearest I've made, and there is no fluffy bottom. Note that gelatine was in the fermentor for 2 weeks before bottling, and had plenty of time to setlle to the bottom, so little if any got into bottles. Oh, and it it tastes good too.

Hazard

 

[Fourstar]

Looking forward to some pics. I'll grab a packet of the agar threads in Chinatown tomorrow. I'm interested in trying it to see if it gives firm bottoms in the bottles as opposed to gelatine's "fluffy" bottoms.
What form did your agar come in, sheets or powder or threads?

Hey Bribie, one of my recent beers (APA) had been done with agar and the results were great, equal to gelatine without the hoof! when the keg blew, i noticed little pearls of agar on the walls of the keg before cleaning. The sediment was very thick and compact.. it didnt seem to be gelled it seemed liek there were 'small chunks' of agar on the bottom, possibly helping to mat it down.

my current beers are dark so i cant give a good visual inspection to how well its working. Ive got a Munich helles about to hit some yeast. when thats done (or another light beer), i'll do a '1st pour photo' and a 3 day after photo for comparison.

I got mine in powdered form. i use 1/4-1/2 of a tsp per keg. pop it in 150-200ml of boiled water and let it sit for around 15 mins @ 80deg approx, it takes a while for it all to break down like jelly. You will still find some solid pearls but all is good, just dump it in. they all settle in the sediment (except for a few). i never ended up with any in the glass (out of 3 kegs so far).

Cheers! :icon_cheers:

 

[smollocks]

This is known as 'fluffy bottoms' and is a characteristic of gelatine if it's used too close to bottling time. Far better to add the gelatine to the fermenter and let it settle right out, then bottle. You should get almost clear beer on bottling with minimal sediment. Don't worry about the beer being too clear on bottling, there will still be enough yeast cells for the bottle conditioning.

I had just assumed the sediment was caused by the act of bottling stirring up some of the yeast cake into solution. I've been adding gelatine about 72 hours before bottling, maybe next time I'll rack to secondary after a week and give the gelatine a further week to work.

I guess thee is a simple answer here - why would you pour a beer if it was warm??

For example if I poured a 375mL bottle into a 250mL glass, the remainder would warm up if I left it out of the fridge while I drank the first glass.

 

[buttersd70]

I guess thee is a simple answer here - why would you pour a beer if it was warm???

Different temperatures for different beers, hazard. I like my bitters at 10C, stouts at closer to 14C. Some would consider that to be warm.

 

[drtomc]

Different temperatures for different beers, hazard. I like my bitters at 10C, stouts at closer to 14C. Some would consider that to be warm.

Taking the the words right out of my mouth.

T.

 

[troopa]

Im not one to do something Half Hearted
so i tried gelatin before i got a fridge
well i musta done something wrong cause my beer ended up with gelatinous little globules in it

took a week to settle int eh bottle and it still tasted fine

next time i used gelatin i had a fridge and CCed and gelatined and its got to be one or the clearest beers ive ever seen

Tom

 

[Renegade]

Does anyone get strands of white on the surface of their beer after a few days of gelatinising ? I did a secondary with gel about four days ago, and there's quite a bit of it, almost like the veins you see in a slab of marble. Sitting at around 17 degrees.

(I post this here, because I havent seen it before, and am only just starting to use gelatine, so my first assumption is that this is the culprit).

No off smells, so Im sure it will be fine, but interested to see if anyone else has noticed.

 

[hazard]

Does anyone get strands of white on the surface of their beer after a few days of gelatinising ?

Er, no. Have you tasted it?

 

[Renegade]

Yep, nothing nasty to the senses. If this is not gelatine related, I should move this to another thread then I think ? Dont want to divert away from this great thread specific to fining.

I'll see if I can get a photo too (means I'll have to engage in technology, better do so before I have too many beers)

 

[Jye]

Does anyone get strands of white on the surface of their beer after a few days of gelatinising ? I did a secondary with gel about four days ago, and there's quite a bit of it, almost like the veins you see in a slab of marble. Sitting at around 17 degrees.

Sounds like you introduced an infection with the gelatine. Might want to add a pic to one of the infection threads.

17C is also to warm, gelatine works best with the beer at around 0C.

 

[Renegade]

Thanks guys. I have moved this enquiry to a new thread here;

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...c=33865&hl=

 

[Dilligaf]

Regarding using Gelatine as finings.

Once put in the fermenter, after a few days is it then necessary to rack it to another fermenter prior to bottling rather than bottle directly out of the fermeneter with the Gelatine in it?

In other words how do u ensure you are not putting this gelatine into teh bottles?

 

[Frag_Dog]

Regarding using Gelatine as finings.

Once put in the fermenter, after a few days is it then necessary to rack it to another fermenter prior to bottling rather than bottle directly out of the fermeneter with the Gelatine in it?

In other words how do u ensure you are not putting this gelatine into teh bottles?

I don't bother. If you were to bulk prime I think it would be a good idea. That way you don't kick up all the yeast again, which is the whole point of using Gelatine.

Moving it off the 2nd yeast cake wouldn't achieve too much unless it was going to be a long time before you bottle. I don't think you'll end up with much Gelatine in your bottles. I guess you could run off the first 100mls if you wanted to be sure. In the bottles, once you chill the Gelatine is all going to drop to the bottom and not be drank.

 

[RdeVjun]

Hi Dilligaf,
for ales, I usually add gelatine to the primary after about 10-12 days, leave it a few more days, occasionally I'll cold crash it after that, but then transfer gently into a bottling cube on to dissolved bulk priming sugar and bottle it shortly thereafter. This method gives me clear enough ales, a fair bit of sediment but I'm not bothered by it at all and its certainly not an outrageous amount. If I used priming drops then I would probably be just bottling from primary, which is what I did way back when I started with K&K.
I seldom use a secondary vessel these days, but I'm not fussy about clarity anyway, nor a moderate amount of sediment in my house ale (a TTL-esque ESB). I am a lazy bugger though, if there's any chance to skip an operation, that's what I'll do unless there's a compelling reason for it. With fewer handling operations there's less chance of an infection being picked up, not that infections in secondary are common, but still a possibility. Same goes for oxidation of fermented wort I guess.
My 2c, FWIW... :icon_cheers:

 

[Bribie G]

The method I use with gelatine is: Ferment the beer almost right out in primary. Rack to another fermenter (I have a smaller 25L fermenter that is dedicated to this job so there is very little headspace). Chill down in fridge overnight then add the gelatine. Let that settle for a couple of days, then add Polyclar. Bottle after a further two or three days. The trick is to get the beer reasonably clear before you transfer to the 'conditioning' vessel so the finings are just polishing it up, and you can end up with almost crystal clear beer going into the bottle or keg.
I'll trot out this old picture again, this bottle has just been filled. There are enough yeast cells lurking there to initiate bottle conditioning believe it or not:



On the other hand if the beer looks like pea soup when you rack it and if it is still a bit murky on bottling then you will end up with some gelatine in the bottles. It doesn't do you any harm (Aeroplane Jelly never killed anyone ) but as I'm sure has been mentioned on this thread it can give the bottles 'fluffy bottoms' with loose sediment that swirls up on opening the bottle, or swirls up into the keg if it's bumped, and you've basically wasted your time fining in the first place.

Cheers

 

[Phoney]

Apologies if it's already been posted in this thread...but what's the recommended usage with lagers? ie: if im lagering @2C for 4 weeks do I add the gelatine after the first couple of days or in the final week?
Cheers

 

[Bribie G]

Apologies if it's already been posted in this thread...but what's the recommended usage with lagers? ie: if im lagering @2C for 4 weeks do I add the gelatine after the first couple of days or in the final week?
Cheers

With a 'true' lager I wouldn't bother with gelatine at all, that's why you are lagering for a month to drop all the remaining yeast and shyte out of the beer anyway. However I would add Polyclar a few days before bottling or kegging to remove any chill haze (polyphenols) in the beer.

 

[D.lycle]

Sitting here on Devachat saves me the money I would be spending down the pub....my donation is on its way.

Ta.

 

[chadjaja]

Thanks for the good read guys.

Well today I took a walk down the clear beer path as the latest two brews I have didn't have whirlflock in them and they aren't cleaning up real well.

Into the keg goes one bit of gelatine and I'll see in 48 hours.

Also transferred from primary into a jerry that is going in for the cc treatment. There I racked it on top of some gelatine and I'll see just how clear I can get the beer from cc'ing and gelatine before it even hits the keg. This English ale yeast isn't real flocculant.