How Do Wyeast And Whitelabs Do It?

[Bribie G]

Not exclusive to poms. I live in an 1800's 10sq terrace with no garage and a cupboard under the stairs, and im right here in Sydney!

Ha lucky man, one of my strange Asperger hobbies is collecting streetscapes and photographing terraced houses all over Australia, I'm always tramping around Sydney when I'm there and it's a good way to find all the out of the way pubs as well :beerbang:






Pity I live in Brisbane where the building of terraces was outlawed following some typhoid epidemics.

 

[hairyson]

Any Pom on the forum will remember the universal cupboard under the stairs, you know the one Mam would lock you in when you were naughty.

my wife (from Liverpool) calls it the 'cooey'.

 

[Phoney]

Pity I live in Brisbane where the building of terraces was outlawed following some typhoid epidemics.

:icon_offtopic:

id take living in a "Queenslander" anyday, especially in the QLD heat.. The big old ones are beautiful...

 

[Obidiah Poundage]

On a UK forum I posted that Ringwood is a good yeast for Yorkshire Bitters because it's originally a Yorkie yeast from the old Hull Brewery in East Yorkshire. I got flamed by people who (apart from being suspicious of foreigners like Poms tend to be) stated that these dastardly foreign knock offs from Wyeast and WLabs are not really the genuine article.

It was hardly a flaming, but it was a statement of fact even if it was a bit blunt and rather matter-of-fact. Packaged Ringwood yeast does not behave anything like the real stuff from the brewery. In fact almost all packaged yeasts behave nothing like the proper stuff from the respective breweries. The propagation techniques screw them up; at the very least they lose their top-working characteristic, but usually they lose more than that. The packaged Ringwood yeast probably started off as Ringwood yeast; indeed probably more than half of American microbreweries use Ringwood yeast, but after it has been force-grown on low gravity glucose with pure oxygen pumped through it in a bioreactor, it changes into something different.

Methinks someone is watching too much Coronation Street.

 

[Supra-Jim]

Methinks someone is watching too much Coronation Street.

Not Coronation Street, ....


I'll go back to sitting in the corner now.

Cheers SJ

 

[hazard]

The propagation techniques screw them up; at the very least they lose their top-working characteristic, but usually they lose more than that. The packaged Ringwood yeast probably started off as Ringwood yeast; indeed probably more than half of American microbreweries use Ringwood yeast, but after it has been force-grown on low gravity glucose with pure oxygen pumped through it in a bioreactor, it changes into something different.

I used Wyeast 1469 (slurry saved from a previous brew) on my last bew - and having seen the krausen coming through the air lock, i can definitley say it hasn't lost its top-working characteristic. I've seen plenty of pics on this forum of worse episodes than mine.

So are you referring to dry yeast? I understand that it is feed glucose and oxygen as you describe above, to build up its reserves. But is liquid yeast dealt with in the same way? I've got a smack pack of Ringwood in the fridge ready for a brew this weekend, but have always thought that liquid was better than dry - it which way, I can't really say. Perhaps this propagation of dry yeast has some adverse effects that liquid yeast doesn't suffer?

hazard

 

[Supra-Jim]

but have always thought that liquid was better than dry - it which way, I can't really say. Perhaps this propagation of dry yeast has some adverse effects that liquid yeast doesn't suffer?

hazard

There is more variety in liquid yeasts (as opposed to dry), as not all yeast strains can handle the process of being dried. Hence the options for dry yeast are limited to known strains that handle the drying process well, and will re-hydrate with a minimum of issues.

Cheers SJ

 

[Stuster]

Packaged Ringwood yeast does not behave anything like the real stuff from the brewery.

Well, despite the name, the Wyeast Ringwood yeast doesn't come from the Ringwood brewery apparently. Have a look here. Might explain why this yeast doesn't behave like the brewery yeast.

Have you noticed that other liquid yeast strains are not like the brewery they are supposed to be from? What difference have you noticed? As somebody else noted, the liquid yeasts we buy certainly don't lose their top fermenting properties. Would love to see a link to how liquid yeast is grown. Even with dry yeast I find dry yeast better in re-pitches than in the first pitch. (Might be all in my head though. ) I think yeast can adapt back to fermenting the mix of sugars in wort pretty quickly and easily.

 

[Bribie G]

It was hardly a flaming, but it was a statement of fact even if it was a bit blunt and rather matter-of-fact. Packaged Ringwood yeast does not behave anything like the real stuff from the brewery. In fact almost all packaged yeasts behave nothing like the proper stuff from the respective breweries. The propagation techniques screw them up; at the very least they lose their top-working characteristic, but usually they lose more than that. The packaged Ringwood yeast probably started off as Ringwood yeast; indeed probably more than half of American microbreweries use Ringwood yeast, but after it has been force-grown on low gravity glucose with pure oxygen pumped through it in a bioreactor, it changes into something different.

Methinks someone is watching too much Coronation Street.

I stopped watching Coronation Street when Ena Sharples passed away :lol: . This thread is really interesting and, whilst I haven't heard back yet from the WYeast guy, and especially re the Ringwood yeast I'm quite willing to stand corrected as I note it's likely from a Swedish brewery . I used to breed dogs and it's analagous, in a way, to arguing whether Labrador Retrievers bred for many decades in Australia and the UK are 'genuine' compared to the original dogs from Labrador or not. I know we are talking different beasts here but same principle. Actually on the subject of genuine brewery yeasts we have the perfect genuine article shipped out to us with every bottle of Coopers Ales. I'm currently onto a 'second generation' pitching of Coopers yeast and it will be interesting to see whether the yeast 'mutates' over subsequent brews.

 

[warrenlw63]

Just to offer up a red herring Wy 1187 (Ringwood) according to the Mr. Malty site was originally the now defunct strain 1742 Swedish Porter strain which supposedly come from the Pripps Brewery in Sweden.

Getting more tangled by the moment.

Edit: Sorry Stu, I just realised your link states the same.

Warren -

 

[Bribie G]

That link from Suster is brilliant, I've bookmarked it. Great to see that the mighty 1469 actually comes from Timothy Taylors and a surprise that Bohemian Lager 2124 is supposedly 'just' W- 34/70. Hmmmm lots of food for thought.

 

[glennheinzel]

Well, despite the name, the Wyeast Ringwood yeast doesn't come from the Ringwood brewery apparently. Have a look here. Might explain why this yeast doesn't behave like the brewery yeast.

The information on the Mr Malty site theorises that White Labs Belgian Golden Ale comes from Duvel whereas the White Labs guys confirmed in a Brewing Network show that it came from a yeast bank. Who knows how accurate any of the other data is?

Then again, perhaps the yeast bank got their yeast from Duvel?

 

[~MikE]

Who actually 'owns' yeast?

noone, GM yeast strains would never be allowed to be released outside of a laboratory, and one can not own non GM organisms.

 

[Stuster]

I'm sure many of the yeasts are from yeast banks. And I'm sure that page isn't completely accurate in terms of where yeasts come from. I guess I was just pointing out that the yeast may behave differently to the brewery one because it might not be the same yeast. :icon_cheers:

And thinking about it a bit more, what exactly is 'proper stuff' in terms of yeast? Breweries also culture up their own yeast and I'd be surprised if they don't use exactly the same techniques for storage and propagation that White Labs/Wyeast/yeast banks use.

 

[drsmurto]

If they're the same Poms on the same forum I'm thinking of they also use dried yeast exclusively. So it just sounds like a case of bagging what they can't obtain.

Warren -

And Goldings... Sometimes, again if it's the same forum, I got the impression that there wasn't a beer around that couldn't be made with S04 and EKG, regardless of known information about the ingredients...

I have tried in the past to discuss liquid yeasts but got 'brushed off' with comments that S-04 will do just as good a job.

And bconnery, yes, seems like we over think british recipes when you can clearly clone any beer with EKG and S-04. Funny how they post the recipe from Wheelers book then ignore the information.....

They have taken a liking to Warrens 4 shades of stout tho!

 

[Supra-Jim]

And thinking about it a bit more, what exactly is 'proper stuff' in terms of yeast? Breweries also culture up their own yeast and I'd be surprised if they don't use exactly the same techniques for storage and propagation that White Labs/Wyeast/yeast banks use.

From memory don't quite a few of the better known/larger american micro's use White Labs/Wyeast/yeast banks to provide/grow/culture/maintain their yeast? Even if it is a 'special' proprietry strain?

Cheers SJ

 

[warrenlw63]

They have taken a liking to Warrens 4 shades of stout tho!

I noticed that Smurto. That being said they seem to be putting it through 4 shades of bastardization though. :lol:

Warren -

 

[Fatgodzilla]

I'm sure many of the yeasts are from yeast banks. And I'm sure that page isn't completely accurate in terms of where yeasts come from. I guess I was just pointing out that the yeast may behave differently to the brewery one because it might not be the same yeast. :icon_cheers:

And thinking about it a bit more, what exactly is 'proper stuff' in terms of yeast? Breweries also culture up their own yeast and I'd be surprised if they don't use exactly the same techniques for storage and propagation that White Labs/Wyeast/yeast banks use.

Cos I guess the point really is, they name a yeast for what it is "supposed" to produce outcomes like. Not its source.

 

[Stuster]

From memory don't quite a few of the better known/larger american micros use White Labs/Wyeast/yeast banks to provide/grow/culture/maintain their yeast? Even if it is a 'special' proprietary strain?

Exactly. And AFAIK the bigger breweries do the same, just in house.

 

[glennheinzel]

I'm sure many of the yeasts are from yeast banks. And I'm sure that page isn't completely accurate in terms of where yeasts come from. I guess I was just pointing out that the yeast may behave differently to the brewery one because it might not be the same yeast. :icon_cheers:

I agree. :icon_chickcheers:

Of course it might even be the same yeast, but it reacts differently due to any number of variable factors (mutation, pitching rate, shape of fermentation vessels, water profile, grain, temp etc)

Cos I guess the point really is, they name a yeast for what it is "supposed" to produce outcomes like. Not its source.

That would make sense, although there is a note on the page that says that the brewery name has been included where they are reasonably confident of the source.