How Do Wyeast And Whitelabs Do It?

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Bribie G

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On a UK forum I posted that Ringwood is a good yeast for Yorkshire Bitters because it's originally a Yorkie yeast from the old Hull Brewery in East Yorkshire. I got flamed by people who (apart from being suspicious of foreigners like Poms tend to be) stated that these dastardly foreign knock offs from Wyeast and WLabs are not really the genuine article.

I don't know what they base that on, but I didn't reply because really I have no idea whether this is true or not. It got me thinking that we trust - at least I trust implicitly - that if we order a West Yorkshire Bitter or a Whitbread, we are actually getting a genuine strain. Are they really authentic strains that they have obtained from breweries or other labs, or are they strains that Wyeast et al have developed themselves to closely mirror the originals?

Who actually 'owns' yeast? I'm also thinking about these new Perth Yeasts. For example if I culture up a 1768 from WYeast can I brew up a bath tub full and sell it as Bribie Extra Special Bitter?

Something I've never read much about.
 
Chris White mentioned on a Brewing Network show that their Belgian Golden Ale yeast came from a yeast library rather than from Duvel.

I'm not sure if that is the exception rather than the rule.
 
On a UK forum I posted that Ringwood is a good yeast for Yorkshire Bitters because it's originally a Yorkie yeast from the old Hull Brewery in East Yorkshire. I got flamed by people who (apart from being suspicious of foreigners like Poms tend to be) stated that these dastardly foreign knock offs from Wyeast and WLabs are not really the genuine article.

I don't know what they base that on, but I didn't reply because really I have no idea whether this is true or not. It got me thinking that we trust - at least I trust implicitly - that if we order a West Yorkshire Bitter or a Whitbread, we are actually getting a genuine strain. Are they really authentic strains that they have obtained from breweries or other labs, or are they strains that Wyeast et al have developed themselves to closely mirror the originals?

Who actually 'owns' yeast? I'm also thinking about these new Perth Yeasts. For example if I culture up a 1768 from WYeast can I brew up a bath tub full and sell it as Bribie Extra Special Bitter?

Something I've never read much about.


Why not send them the above in an email, I have always had excellent respones to questions from Greg Doss.

[email protected]
 
Those poms are the ones that are so certain, can't you ask them to provide some proof of their claims?
 
Just a guess but I'm thinking they are selecting (isolating) strains from a pretty large pool. At times they would isolate a strain that WAS found in an original West Yorkshire brew, at other times, strains very similar.
There's doubt that what we refer to as diffferent strains are different enough to warrant the distinction. So different "strains" we buy/sell would most likely be small groups of yeasts similar to each other.
Bribie isn't that where US05 (56) came from?
 
Those poms are the ones that are so certain, can't you ask them to provide some proof of their claims?

If they're the same Poms on the same forum I'm thinking of they also use dried yeast exclusively. So it just sounds like a case of bagging what they can't obtain.

Warren -
 
I suspect they buy their cultures from yeast repositories like this:

http://www.ncyc.co.uk/

cheers

Darren

For a minimum cost of 46 pounds for a single slant, I doubt it. The homebrewers that is, maybe the breweries could afford that.

edit: OR were you answeing the OP question? where do WL or WY get their strains? This would make sense then, except theyd probably get it from the US, not the UK.
 
Why not send them the above in an email, I have always had excellent respones to questions from Greg Doss.

[email protected]

Emailed as suggested
:icon_cheers:

The poms are slowly getting onto liquid yeasts, but remember they are generally ten years behind us in HB - and lets face it in many areas of the UK you can walk out of your door and have a hundred beers to choose from starting from four dollars a pint so why would you want to? Also most average older houses there are ten squares in the old measure, and if you are living in a small terraced house or a semi without a garage etc it's hard to get into HERMS or other 3 vessel brewing and KnK is ideal solution. I used to brew my Tom Caxton kits in the cupboard under the stairs :super:
Any Pom on the forum will remember the universal cupboard under the stairs, you know the one Mam would lock you in when you were naughty.
 
Any Pom on the forum will remember the universal cupboard under the stairs, you know the one Mam would lock you in when you were naughty.
You dont have a lightning shaped scar on your forehead, do you?
 
I cant say how either of the Yeast companies source their yeast and how close the DNA is to the original but here is quote in the latest Brewer and Distiller magazine which may give you some insight..

"In 1959 it was reported that of the 39 Ale yeast cultures in use commercially in Britain. 12 contained single strain, 16 had two major strains and the rest contained three or more yeast strains."(Anne Hill & Graham Stewart)

So you see what may be quoted as a yeast from here may be true but it may not tell the full story of the whole yeast/yeasts used at the brewery.I know there are a few strains quoted as Urquell X and Y etc.
These breweries may well be using "in house" blends of yeasts.
GB
 
Any Pom on the forum will remember the universal cupboard under the stairs, you know the one Mam would lock you in when you were naughty.

;) I wish I was simply locked up. If 'the strap' (an old belt) wasn't handy, whatever mom had in her hands would suffice. I've been hit with about 20kg of bread dough (it was fun trying to wash the grease out of my hair), more sticks than I can count, and the flat side of a knife. Really, the flat side of a knife. <_<

Back on topic. Regarding where they get their yeast strains, I always thought that they got them (some anyway) direct from the brewery in exchange for a % of sales. I'm probably wrong though.
 
If they're the same Poms on the same forum I'm thinking of they also use dried yeast exclusively. So it just sounds like a case of bagging what they can't obtain.

Warren -
And Goldings... Sometimes, again if it's the same forum, I got the impression that there wasn't a beer around that couldn't be made with S04 and EKG, regardless of known information about the ingredients...
 
And Goldings... Sometimes, again if it's the same forum, I got the impression that there wasn't a beer around that couldn't be made with S04 and EKG, regardless of known information about the ingredients...


............ and if they're from Yorkshire, the mash paddle would also be the coal shovel .. add a bit o' colour, like ! :rolleyes:
 
And Goldings... Sometimes, again if it's the same forum, I got the impression that there wasn't a beer around that couldn't be made with S04 and EKG, regardless of known information about the ingredients...

:lol: Also the same forum that posts brewday pics? I must confess I to get envious seeing them using whole hop versions of all the British classics.

Warren -
 
:lol: Also the same forum that posts brewday pics? I must confess I to get envious seeing them using whole hop versions of all the British classics.

Warren -


yes - the blighters do have something over us ! And they have access to the original for taste comparisons which we can barely do without an air ticket.

And some of those beer shows they have .. :icon_drool2:


What was the topic again ?
 
Also most average older houses there are ten squares in the old measure, and if you are living in a small terraced house or a semi without a garage etc it's hard to get into HERMS or other 3 vessel brewing and KnK is ideal solution. I used to brew my Tom Caxton kits in the cupboard under the stairs :super:
Any Pom on the forum will remember the universal cupboard under the stairs, you know the one Mam would lock you in when you were naughty.

Not exclusive to poms. I live in an 1800's 10sq terrace with no garage and a cupboard under the stairs, and im right here in Sydney! :)
 
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