Thanks for the response, Wayne. I'll address your comments below.
domonsura said:
You seem to have a lot of common knowledge for someone who can't make the stuff himself Matt.
Yes, that's correct. Just because I can design and use something doesn't mean that I have the equipment or skills to manufacture it. I'd guess at the very least I'd need a metal lathe to turn up the bulkhead design that I'd like, along with some decent BSP taps and drills.
domonsura said:
1. You started this thread, and began criticising the design before you had even seen the product, or tried it.
You'll actually note that I never once criticised Beerbelly or the product you were selling up until post #17, after I had the bulkheads in my hands. Up until that point I was just questioning how the Beerbelly bulkheads were made in the hope that I'd finally found a retailer that sold solid flange bulkheads in BSP. From the response in post #11, one AHBer confirmed that the Beerbelly bulkheads did indeed have a solid flange, so I went ahead and purchased them. I did explain to others WHY I preferred solid flange bulkheads, but at that point I was assuming the Beerbelly ones were solid.
domonsura said:
2. You then purchased 4 of them, having stated that it was a poor design.
Nope, as mentioned above, I purchased 4 of them assuming they were a solid flange. I (incorrectly) thought the locknut to the rear of the photos on the site was actually a solid part of the nipple. Neither of the two images show any evidence to the contrary, so that, along with #11 was why I decided to buy 4.
domonsura said:
3. You then posted photos of the product further criticising the design, and questioning why I would make the decision to make them this way, and stated quite clearly that you would 'send them back for a refund'. (Before you bothered to contact us to discuss)
Yes, I sent my first email to you shortly after posting an update to AHB in post #17. I did not question your decision to make them that way, nor did I insult Beerbelly. I just said they weren't what I wanted, and that I'd have to rely on thread tape for a seal if I used them. I apologise for being so presumptuous as to assume that an online retailer would have a reasonble return policy for their goods. I guess I'm just used to other online retailers that are happy to exchange and refund, as they realise that often customers misinterpret photos and data on their product pages.
domonsura said:
4. You THEN contacted us via email (for the first time) to demand that you be able to return them.
I did not "demand". In fact, the exact phrase I used was "I'd like to return the bulkheads and get a refund. Unless your workshop is able to manufacture bulkheads with solid flanges and a taper thread each end?"
domonsura said:
5. You then called the shop, demanding a refund and started the 'not fit for purpose' approach, arguing with my wife at any angle to achieve what you wanted. I clarified for you that as far as I am concerned and given the HUNDREDS of these that have been sold on 4 different continents over the last 5 years with no returns - and by that I mean that no-one has ever called and taken your approach and none have been returned because "they don't work', or for any other reason that I am aware of. You then started insulting me on the phone telling me that I had made , (and I quote) 'a terrible design decision' at which point I terminated the call as I felt you were beginning to take personal pot shots and no longer dealing with the issue at hand and I'm not interested in a slinging match. I did invite you to contact Consumer and Business Affairs myself, and offered to provide the number (which you refused), advising that if they stated I was obliged in any way to refund I would do so. But I have gone to fair lengths to provide good photographs and description of the product, and your statement of (and I quote again) 'the text doesnt tell me that the locknut ISN'T attached ' as far as I am concerned is a bit ridiculous.
This started as a perfectly amicable request for a refund. I was totally taken aback when it was refused. I even explained I was happy to pay the cost of return postage (which is fair). Yes, I then pressed harder and was finally passed to you. Not once did I insult you, nor Amanda, however.
I did question your design decision to move from a solid flange to two locknuts, and you told me it was to reduce manufacturing costs. In fact, Amanda quoted me $70 for a solid flange bulkhead and you mentioned that they'd take about and hour to manufacture.
I did tell you that I was OK to find the number for SA Consumer and Business Affairs myself.
I agree with you that I should have called you beforehand to confirm the design of the bulkhead, but I also don't think it is unreasonable to rely on other members here for information about your products.
domonsura said:
I'll also clarify that I did NOT state to you that the product was changed to 'save manufacturing costs', I said absolutely nothing of the sort. I DID say that I changed them because the others were time consuming to make, not that great for what they cost in my opinion, I was never happy with them and no-one wanted to pay what they would have cost to continue making them. At the time there were no less than 3 other retailers selling identical arrangements to what we sell now. In an effort to be able to supply something to the people seeking a solution, I began making them that way myself. 900 or so later, my opinion is that they work fine as supplied or I would not have sold 900 of them.
We obviously disagree on the statement about the manufacturing costs. I can understand your decision to switch to the dual locknut and nipple design due to cost competition from other retailers and testing the design yourself. I still think the solid flange design is a better one, but we're both welcome to our different opinions.
domonsura said:
Coming on here and attempting to blindside a business and damage it's reputation with factually incorrect statements is not very smart. I'm not perfect, and neither is my business - I'm the first to admit that we are a work in progress, but we're doing our best. But I have no obligation to help someone who won't help themselves and ask the person who actually makes the gear before they purchase, nor am I inclined to help someone out who can't seem to be polite about it. We bend over backwards to help people build their breweries in various ways every day, even when they are trying to re-invent the wheel and sometimes use unconventional equipment or methods, but if you don't talk to us we can't help you can we?
The fact of the matter is if you had called and said something like, "Hey I made a small mistake and purchased some of these bulkheads and they're not going to work for me - can we work something out to return them?" instead of getting on here and having a go first - the result would have been different......but as I said on the phone, the onus is on you the customer to ascertain that the product is suitable for you BEFORE you purchase it, and asking questions first is free. So is being polite. It's what the majority of our customers do before they purchase, and as far as I am concerned those customers get a pretty good service.
There are two points to make here. I did not attempt to "blindside" your business. My comments all the way through the thread were simply about the solid flange vs. the two locknut design with the intention of finding out which type Beerbelly manufactured. Even when I found that Beerbelly didn't make what I wanted, I just mentioned on here that they weren't what I wanted and I'd ask for a refund.
You're right, I should have contacted you before I purchased online. Nowadays, though, I do a lot of my shopping online through recommendations of others (which happened here), with the expectation that if I received something that wasn't quite like I expected, I'd be able to return it.
One other thing - being critical of a product is not being critical of the business. Had you just decided it was OK to refund, and ask me to ship the bulkheads back, all would be well. I'd still hold Beerbelly in high esteem. Furthermore, me being critical of a design of product of yours should be no reason to reject a refund. What started out as an amicable request for a refund could have ended with an explanation of why you manufacture your bulkheads like you do, an agreement to have the product returned and, better yet, a helpful suggestion on how I could obtain a solid flange bulkhead.
Truly though, Selley's rates it totally food-safe at mashing temperatures. That's what I did in my Tecni-Ice tun. No leaks ever. No added flavors of any sort.
