Hops - Pellets Vs Flowers Performance & Suitability

[piraterum]

Hey Guys,

I've always used hop pellets for the sake of convenience. What are your experiences of the performance of flowers vs hops?

Do you find Are pellets ok for bittering and flavour, but flowers are more suitable for aroma (late addition and dry hopping)?


I'd like to have a crack at the Coopers Pale Ale Clone by AndrewQLD in the Recipe DB. It specifically calls for Pride of Ringwood flowers instead of pellets. I've heard POR hop pellets are notorious for causing a harsh bitterness. Do you find a similar case for other hop varieties?

cheers,

pirateum

 

[WarmBeer]

I've done two batches of a simple Aussie ale, first one bittered with POR pellets, second with 2010 harvest POR flowers.

The difference in these beers is substantial. The first attempt is very reminiscent of a pub Carlton Draught, only better (imho).

The second beer, using flowers is a very different beast. I get a subtle flowery aroma, and the bittering is smoother. It's more like a Coopers Pale, but without that beer's particular yeast esters, as I used US-05 on both beers.

There is certainly nothing wrong with POR flowers, they've gotten a bad rap due to megaswill-beer snobbery. Give them a go.

 

[Bribie G]

It's not just as simple as flowers Vs pellets. I was in Wellington last year for Beervana and as an Aussie visitor I was basking in Kiwi hops in their IPAs, ESBs, etc and asked each brewer at the expo what hops they used. I usually started the conversation along the lines of:
"Hi I'm over here from Brisbane and I'm a home brewer - love the Kiwi hops and a great advantage for us is that we can get the flowers bla bla bla"
Invariably they said "flowers? - nah we only use the pellets - far more reliable and easier to handle and just as good if not better for flavour" :blink:

That was coming from the pros.
My understanding is that pellets store better with far less degradation of AAs and hop oils etc but can give some unwanted vegetal character as they contain ground up stems and bracts that stay whole when hop flowers are boiled.

My thoughts on hop flowers are to only use them if they are new season, or last year at the oldest and only use the aroma varieties where I am looking for freshness and fragrance. Otherwise the pellets. I've noticed a huge difference in this regard with Hallertau Aroma - the flowers come out way ahead of the pellets IMHO. But for bittering I would use pellets.

Edit: I've currently got 2 foils of POR flowers and a foil of NZ Fuggles flowers in the freezer to produce Aussies like Warmbeer did, and use the fuggles in a UK bitter where I'm looking for some aroma.

 

[proudscum]

I have always used flowers in my system because i like the ability to use them as a filter bed when i run off my Wort.You do need to use a little more to get the same level of bittering but i dont see this as a problem.

Have only ever used POR flowers that are home grown and only needed about 20gr to get the desired IBU from bittering,as they are fresh and the amount used is quite small i have not found it to be harsh or coarse.When the hops are first picked or dried i will sometimes use them for a bit of aroma as well.

if i use them for dry hopping i will put them the flowers into a s/s tea infuser(lge)in the secondary and sometimes into the keg as well.

So basically i love em and will always use them over pellets,the only downside is that you are a little limited on the flowers that you can get so i will also use plugs as well.

 

[argon]

I do love flowers... makes me feel like a real brewer... natural products, low H.I. and all that (Human Intervention). But i'm super paranoid of getting a stuck pickup in the kettle. Has happened twice... (why won't i learn my lesson :blink: )

I'll use each without bias to be honest and have only noted that the pellets store a little better, retaining their flavour and aroma for longer.

edit: however the advantage of flowers/plugs is tat i can use them easily with a french press, wheras pellets don't do well in a coffee plunger. I also dry hop my keg only with flowers/plugs as i note that the pellets disintegrate too easily and i end up with floaties in the glass.

 

[WarmBeer]

I do love flowers... makes me feel like a real brewer... natural products, low H.I. and all that (Human Intervention). But i'm super paranoid of getting a stuck pickup in the kettle. Has happened twice... (why won't i learn my lesson :blink: )

I wedged a half a stainless steel scrubby ($2 for a 6 pack from one of those cheapo places) in between my pickup and the based of my keggle. Slowed the drainage into the cube, but worked an absolute wonder in filtering out both the hop debris and kettle trub. Wouldn't do it with pellets, though, it would get too clogged by hop matter.

 

[argon]

I wedged a half a stainless steel scrubby ($2 for a 6 pack from one of those cheapo places) in between my pickup and the based of my keggle. Slowed the drainage into the cube, but worked an absolute wonder in filtering out both the hop debris and kettle trub. Wouldn't do it with pellets, though, it would get too clogged by hop matter.

Yeah i did that on my last batch... although i used a combo of pellets and flowers... so i had a very slow drain.

I've got a stainless sieve i plan to cut up and use the mesh to wrap over the end of my pickup, which may do a similar thing.

 

[gunbrew]

Something interesting in regard to useability.

A brewer from the lord nelson said to me they only use pellets as flowers clog everything up.

I Started using pellets and now use flowers when ever i can.

A few times flowers did clog the tap of my birko, I BIAB and do not use a hop sock as I like the hops to be free in the boil.

My next batch I blended the hops with a bamix, mashing them up. (as I guess they would be for making pellets)
This prevented any blockage in my tap from whole flowes going in.
I found that this made the bittering work better and that overall it seemed there was more bang for buck from the hops.
I suspect that when they are mashed up it makes it easier to get the lumpin off the flowers in the boil.
Prior to using the blended hop flowers method I had observed my used hop flowers after the boil and could still see lumpin in the flowers.

Now I have made a false bottom for my Birko out of fine stainless steel mesh so depending on the brew i will or wont blend the hops.

Overall I prefer flowers and most of all I prefer them fresh.
It is my second year growing hops and the best beers I have made have all been from my home grown hops.
Cheers.

 

[Nick JD]

Having a beer drinker who has never seen real beer being made watch you pour some flowers into a bowl on the scale and ask, "What are those?" and then get the reply, "Flowers", is pretty funny.

Beer is much more girly than wine. It's flavoured with flowers.

Girlies.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Yeah i did that on my last batch... although i used a combo of pellets and flowers... so i had a very slow drain.

I've got a stainless sieve i plan to cut up and use the mesh to wrap over the end of my pickup, which may do a similar thing.

+1, sieves are the bomb.

After having floatees from pellets (my fault for not racking when I had a non-flocc yeast), I'll sieve when racking if I chuck any into the fermenter for dry hop.

Not so bad when the yeast beds down, but if the yeast isn't forming a compact trub, I get floatees, so I've inserted this extra step into my process.

Goomba

 

[piraterum]

Thanks for the feedback guys :icon_cheers:

I have noticed the pellets do keep their flavour and aroma well when stored properly (ie air tight in the freezer) for at least 6-12months.

I usually go through packets pretty quickly, so the shorter shelflife of flowers compared to pellets wouldn't be an issue.
As flowers seem to be about the same price as pellets for a 90g packet I'm keen to give them a go.

I'm a big fan of cascade hops so i'd love to do some brewing with some fresh cascade flower goodness :icon_drool2:

 

[Jack of all biers]

[SIZE=medium]I thought bringing this post back to life was most appropriate rather than start a new one, but there are others that could be linked (see very bottom of post for similarly titled links).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I have never bothered to calculate the wort loss to hops in my boils, as I don’t usually use large amounts (pellets or whole hops). I am now interested, as I had a larger loss in my last boil (I concluded that it was down to a miss-calculation about evaporation losses, but it got me thinking about this topic).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]I was searching for the difference of wort absorption between pellets and whole flower/plugs and found some commonalities; [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]This thread [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/44049-biab-water-amounts/[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] has an entry (Scruffy) suggesting a guess of 400 ml per 30 gm, which equates to 13 ml per 1 gm.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]This thread [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/78303-pellet-hop-absorbtions/[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] has two entries from (Pratty1) who found from American forums two different absorption conclusions for pellets. One was 151 ml per 28 gm, which equates to 5.4 ml per 1 gm. The other was 12 ml per 1 gm.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]This thread [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=35303[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] from an English forum has one entry suggesting that wort able to be recovered from hops is 500 ml from 100 gm equating to 5 ml per 1 gm (similar to the first American result Pratty1 found above). One other post suggests his losses are more than double that rate (so more than 10 ml per 1 gm). One entry states that the rough guide absorption rate is 10-15 ml per 1 gm (for whole hops) and another’s experiments concluded the absorption rate to be 14 ml per 1 gm (again for whole hops and this writer states he rounds that up to 15 ml to be safe).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]This site [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]http://www.homebrewjunkie.com/2008/08/pellet-hops-vs-whole-leaf-hops-whats.html[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] suggests that in the writers’ observations there is no difference in absorption between pellet and whole leaf hops, but he does not state how much absorption he has observed. This seems to go against most opinion, but he is the only source I can find that actually compares the absorption between pellets and whole hops.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Given the above information from various practical observations, the general consensus is that absorption of dried hops (pellet or whole hops) is anywhere between 10-15 ml per 1 gm. It suggests to me that the amount of recoverable wort in whole hops is roughly 5 ml per 1 gm (if left to drain or be squeezed). I think this recoverable amount from whole hops is probably explained because of the cavities within the cones that would hold liquid that is recoverable, rather than be absorption into the vegetable matter itself. This might also explain why most experience more wort loss with whole hops. Perhaps?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]My questions to the forum users are;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Are your experiences of wort loss to hops roughly similar to those above?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Does anyone have any different amounts of losses to those above (for pellet or whole hops)?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Has anyone calculated what they have recovered from either pellet or whole hops?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]The reason for the questions is to confirm calculations of wort loss. I know it’s not a science so am just after confirmation or negating of the above rough guide(10-15ml per 1gm). [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I am also thinking of soaking the hops prior to the boil, but don’t want to lose too much of the resins by straining the hops from excess water so would like to soak in the rough volume that the hops will absorb. For example if 15 ml per 1 gm is accurate, then I would soak 100 gm of whole hops in 1.5L water prior to adding it to the kettle.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Here are the other threads from this forum that I found on the topic of whole v pellet hops, but none have any insight into absorption amounts. Links added for interest.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/48137-difference-between-hop-plugs-and-pellets/[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/61927-substituting-hops-flowers-for-pellets/[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/33758-hop-pellets-vs-plugs-and-flowers/page-2[/SIZE]