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Hoppy Black Saison

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sponge

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Hey all,

I just thought I'd push out one more brew using some 3711 slurry I have on hand since I am really enjoying this yeast at the moment.

To mix things up from the previous two brews using this yeast (berry wheat and standard saison), I was looking at doing a hoppy black saison

I was thinking something along the lines of the following;

50% pils
20% wheat
20% munich
5% cara
3% choc
2% roast

1.050

late NS and Amarillo to ~40IBU

3711

Has anyone done something similar with decent results or is this just a recipe that will go downhill pretty quickly?

Bit of inspiration came from the 8 wired sauvin saison and read somewhere about someone doing a dark saison with roast barley and I'm pretty sure they said it worked pretty well together

I could imagine the yeast going well with the fruity mix of NS and amarillo, but not so sure about the roasted/choc malts. Wasn't sure if the attenuation of this yeast would make for the roast flavours being too strong/harsh

Any feedback would be great



Sponge
 

Nick JD

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I haven't done any dark saisons (not a big fan of dark beers) but I've done quite a few hoppy ones.

Basically APAs with belgian saison yeast. They're freakin awesome - the insane esters from the yeast and the fruitiness or amarillo and citra and cascade go really well - especially with a bit of caraaroma.
 

sponge

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Yea I was thinking the 3711 would go pretty deliciously with any fruity hops, and the only reason I was thinking NS/amarillo is that they have been a little neglected as of late and I would think they would both compliment the yeast quite nicely...

Might just stick to a more APA style as you say, and not worry about the black side of it.


Cheers

Sponge
 

Lecterfan

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Sponge - I've done one almost identical to that (in spirit if not ingredients). I particularly enjoy nelson sav with wy3711.

My only comment is watch the IBUs...40IBU is probably fine if it stops around 1.011, but is wy3711 going to stop there? (unless you adopt NickJD's suggestion from the other thread about CC/fridge and keg it at the desired gravity)? In two brews that I experimented with ingredients and wy3711, one is 30 IBUs (with aromatic malt, special B and some carafa so it is pretty malty also), but another one was 28 IBU with a very basic grist and at 1.004 it is way too bitter for the style (and my palate).

I think wy3711 leaves a nice dry/tart flavour and this can be ruined with a lingering intense bitterness. Just my feedback...

:icon_cheers:
 

Nick JD

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This one's with 3724. Drinking it as I type.



17L
3.5kg Wey Ale
100g Special B
100g Caraaroma
64C Mash
250g Dextrose
30g Citra 15min

The citra, the esters and the spec malts work really well together. Fermented at 30-35C.
 

Lecterfan

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Looks delish Nick....what IBU level?

Drinking mine at the moment:
darker_sais.jpg
23L, 1.048 - 1.008, 32 IBU
4kg JW Pils
1kg Wey Wheat
250gms aromatic
140gms spec b
60gms Carafa II
Bastard mongrel mix of Goldings, Summit and Glacier to bitter, 30 gms goldings at flameout.
wy3711

It's yum - heaps of malt comes in at the end from the aromatic and it compliments the yeast nicely.

edit: there will be a 12 week old 9kg keg of this at the next B.A.R. meet...if I can hold off drinking it.
 

Nick JD

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Looks delish Nick....what IBU level?
So does yours! I have about 1 more glass in the keg then it's byebye to saisons until December...

BrewMate says 34 IBUs, but my Citra is getting on (was 14% AA), so I'd say ~30.
 

sponge

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Yea I was thinking 40IBU may be a little too much, considering the 3711 gets so low.

might aim for more 25-30IBU with a single cube addition of NS & Amarillo/Citra to give a nice hop flavour without the excess bitterness from earlier additions.

Also, judging by those previous recipes, I will probably exclude the roast barley and just use a little bit of choc for colour and a smidgen of crystal and munich for some more malty flavours.

I should probably get my hands on some spec B and aromatic as well, and use in place of the choc and crystal... Would make for a much nicer saison

Cheers for the feedback fellas,


Sponge
 

Nick JD

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Special B and Caraaroma give those "dried fruit" flavours and surprisingly quite a fruity aroma too.
 

Mikedub

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This one's with 3724. Drinking it as I type.


17L
3.5kg Wey Ale
100g Special B
100g Caraaroma
64C Mash
250g Dextrose
30g Citra 15min

The citra, the esters and the spec malts work really well together. Fermented at 30-35C.
I've been looking for something to pitch on my wlp 565 saison cake this weekend Nick, like the look of this, might try my hand at candi sugar instead of the dex,
cheers
 

Nick JD

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I've been looking for something to pitch on my wlp 565 saison cake this weekend Nick, like the look of this, might try my hand at candi sugar instead of the dex,
cheers
Clear candi sugar is pretty much dex if you're a yeast cell. If you are caramelising it then that's a different story!
 

sponge

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Looking like ill put down the following on Saturday...

1kg Ale (Since I don't have much pils left)
1.5kg Pils
1kg munich
500g wheat
250g aromatic
200g crystal

NS @ Cube to 30IBU

3711


Cheers for the feedback fellas


Sponge
 

chunckious

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Looking like ill put down the following on Saturday...

1kg Ale (Since I don't have much pils left)
1.5kg Pils
1kg munich
500g wheat
250g aromatic
200g crystal

NS @ Cube to 30IBU

3711




Cheers for the feedback fellas


Sponge
So Sponge, are you not adding hops during the boil. Just hops into the cube?
 

sponge

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Ive been finding cube hopping really gives me a nice bit of flavour and aroma that ive been struggling to get during the boil and no chilling, even after throwing hops in at flameout/whirlpool.

Granted i could always just do the small seperate boil and chucking that in with the cube at the start of fermentation such as the argon method, but I find this a fairly simple solution.

I may lose a little wort from the hops, but in the end its not really a big concern. Just chuck it all into the fermenter (except for my last batch which had 200g of flowers, and tried to leave the majority of them behind) as it all normally clears up during CCing

If I feel i need a little more bitterness without chucking in a metric tonne of hops into the cube, ill add a FWH addition. Not sure if this assists with the flavour or aroma at all like some suggest, but it doesnt hurt and may help smooth the bitterness (once again, thats for a seperate thread... cant really find a downside to FWH-ing though)

All in all, ive been enjoying the cube hop additions and just normally treat them as a 10min addition for IBU sake. Once again, this may not be accurate, but its been working for me



Sponge


EDIT: i often dry hop as well for that extra bit of aroma if it seems lacking during fermentation, but the cube addition definitely improves the aroma compared to adding during the boil and NCing
 

Phoney

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So I'm thinking of doing a hoppy red saison.

OG 1.051
IBU 34

3.85kg pilsner 72%
0.95kg wheat 18%
0.2kg aromatic 3.8%
0.2kg caraaroma 3.8%
0.1kg roast barley 1.8%

10g citra @ 60
15g amarillo @ cube hop
15g cascade @ cube hop
15g citra @ cube hop

WY3711 - should munch that down to 1.004 to give 6% ABV

Would appreciate some critique!
Cheers
 

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