Hoegaarden Ag Clone

[hoppinmad]

Hi everyone,

I am preparing for my first AG and have decided to make it a Belgian Wit (the only beer my girlfriend likes :angry: ). I have bought all the ingredients from Grain and Grape but really am not sure about the mashing regime and water volumes for mashing in and sparging I need.

This is what I have:

2.7kg Weyermenn Pilsener
2kg Torrefied wheat
0.5kg Malted oats
250gr Rice hulls

pack of Perle hops

WYeast 3944


I read Grain and Grape's version of the recipe, but it is a little complicated... with many different mash stages... and doesn't have a great explanation

Belgian Wit recipe

I have a boiler from my reflux still which holds 25 litres (that I have used for all my extract brews), so will need to water down the wort after it has been put into the primary fermenter

Also, how many grams of pearle hop pellets would you recommend for end bitterness of 16 IBUs?

Any ideas?

Cheers,

James

 

[Osangar]

Good luck, this is an advanced beer for your first AG.

I have brewed the wit recipe from Zaniasheff’s brewing classic styles.

Mash at 50c for 10 mins and then take it to 68c for the reminder of a 90 min mash.

This seemed to work well for me, and beer turned out very good, although the recipes are a bit different. The gin bill seems similar.

Are you adding citrus such as orange peel ? this is what makes the distinct flavour.

As for hops, it depends on their % - I’d say around 20- 25g would be in the ball park

 

[pint of lager]

Wheat based brews need multiple steps. They are also problematic for sparging, creating stuck sparges.

Do yourself a favour. For your first ag, and probably the first four or five, stick to pale ale style brews. Put the wit aside for when your skills build up.

A pale ale is a delicious beer and more forgiving. If the bittering goes a bit astray, it is still within the style guidelines of a nice beer. Once you have a good pale ale, you can do ordinary or special bitters.

Have never seen the instructions from Grain and Grape, but such a recipe would assume plenty of prior knowledge, which you do not yet have.

Put the wit ingredients away for a few weeks, somewhere cool and dry, they will keep that long. Do some more reading on wit mashing.

Any brewing calculator has the details for working out the IBU's. You need to plug in your boil volume, top up volume, AA rating of your hops and required IBU. The calculator will then tell you how many grams of hops.

 

[Smashin]

Hi everyone,

I am preparing for my first AG and have decided to make it a Belgian Wit (the only beer my girlfriend likes :angry: ). I have bought all the ingredients from Grain and Grape but really am not sure about the mashing regime and water volumes for mashing in and sparging I need.

This is what I have:

2.7kg Weyermenn Pilsener
2kg Torrefied wheat
0.5kg Malted oats
250gr Rice hulls

pack of Perle hops

WYeast 3944


I read Grain and Grape's version of the recipe, but it is a little complicated... with many different mash stages... and doesn't have a great explanation

Belgian Wit recipe

I have a boiler from my reflux still which holds 25 litres (that I have used for all my extract brews), so will need to water down the wort after it has been put into the primary fermenter

Also, how many grams of pearle hop pellets would you recommend for end bitterness of 16 IBUs?

Any ideas?

Cheers,

James

Thats one fair crack at a first AG brew, I'd rank the witbier as an advanced style.

Ingrdients:
maybe a bit high on the use of barley, i tend to keep the wheat:barley around 1:1.
I'd tend to use flaked wheat or whole unmalted wheat, but I can't see any reason not to use torified wheat.
Again i tend to use flaked oats for a wit, although the malted oats will assist with the breaking down of wheat.

In saying that i've made some great wits with as much or more barley.

MASH:
30min @ 48-50
Raise the mash to 69 over 15 min then hold until conversion complete (~1.5hrs)
mash out as normal.

Perle is an interesting choice, something i wouldn't have associated with a wit but now that i look at the hop charact wheel it does seam to fit. My hop additions for a wit are a single boil addition for 60min as a wit shouldn't have any significant hop flavour or arroma. You havn't stated the %Alpha acid for your perle hops, given that perle can range significantly (6-11%) its hard to suggest how much at add for achieve 16IBU (10-20g for a 20l batch).

good luck, here hoping to no stuck sparge.

 

[hoppinmad]

Yes it does appear that I have picked a hard style to make for my first AG! Looking at the youtube videos, none of them have so many steps during the mashing stage... but maybe if I do some serious research and get all my steps written down before starting I may be able to pull it off :unsure:.
Saying that... 50 bucks is still 50 bucks and it may be better to get a Hoegaarden kit to keep the missus happy until I have more experience (I think Brewcraft make one don't they?).

Also... yes I forgot to say I would be using the dried bitter orange peel and coriander seeds.

 

[Goat]

Hi Hoppinmad - good luck with it.

I've always found Wits to be pretty forgiving and contrary to other comments, think its probably a good one to cut your teeth on. Mind you I no longer bother with stepped mashes - based on subjective comparisons with single and multiple stepped versions.

As mentioned though, you need to watch out for the stuck sparge - you can't have too much rice hull.

With that amount of malt, you might find it a bit darker than expected - but that's not a real problem. I lighten mine up with rice - but that only adds to the thickness of the mash increasing the risk of a stuck sparge.

Make sure you keep good records of everything and don't sweat it if you miss the odd volume or target temp - some of my best brews have been the subject of stuff-ups.

 

[razz]

Fill in your location HoppinMad, if you choose to that is. Some learned brewer in your neck of the woods may offer to assist you with this brew.

 

[hoppinmad]

Another quick question....

Once the 90 mash is finished and I have drained the liquid into the boiler, what do I need to do in terms of sparging?

 

[Smashin]

Another quick question....

Once the 90 mash is finished and I have drained the liquid into the boiler, what do I need to do in terms of sparging?

I sparge fly sparge with 76-85 deg water depending on what i'm brewing, I keep sparging until i've collected 25L or the runnings drop below 1.010 or ph above 5.7.

Have a read up on ag brewing, There many good sources out there but heres a fairly good one to start with, depending how your set up you may need to get a bit more equipment in your kit. http://www.howtobrew.com/ John explains it quite well.

 

[TidalPete]

Yes it does appear that I have picked a hard style to make for my first AG! Looking at the youtube videos, none of them have so many steps during the mashing stage...

Hoppin,

Very big thing to do this as your first AG but if you are determined to go ahead then try my tried & proven Wheatie mash schedule (Thanks Zwickel :icon_cheers: )
--- 44-52-64-72-77. You will need 10% rice gulls.

If I was you though I would go with the above & do a simple pale Ale for my first AG.

Look on the bright side of this mate. --- You can always get another girlfriend who is not so finicky with your choice of beers. :lol: Plenty more fish in the sea.


TP :beer:

 

[Osangar]

For sparging I use 20L water @ 80c
Add to grain in 3 batches of 7L or so.

 

[Smashin]

...You can always get another girlfriend who is not so finicky with your choice of beers. :lol: Plenty more fish in the sea.

Or better still get on that doesn't drink beer at all..... h34r: :icon_offtopic:

 

[hoppinmad]

Hoppin,

Very big thing to do this as your first AG but if you are determined to go ahead then try my tried & proven Wheatie mash schedule (Thanks Zwickel :icon_cheers: )
--- 44-52-64-72-77. You will need 10% rice gulls.

If I was you though I would go with the above & do a simple pale Ale for my first AG.

Look on the bright side of this mate. --- You can always get another girlfriend who is not so finicky with your choice of beers. :lol: Plenty more fish in the sea.


TP :beer:

Okay... well yes there are plenty of fish in the sea... but it took enough burly to get this one!

pardon my ignorance but what does "44-52-64-72-77" mean?

 

[pint of lager]

They are rest temperatures in a multistep mashing schedule. It is time for you to wet your toes on an easy single infusion mash and brew a pale ale. Explain to your partner that you will do the wit in good time.

 

[hoppinmad]

Sorry... but against all your advice I have decided to go for it and make this thing.

Before I do... can I run through my plan with you guys and see if I am about to do something monumentally stupid?


1. Add 10L water @ 56.4c to achieve temperature of 50c
2. Wait 30mins
3. Add 8L water @ 96.3c to achieve temperature of 68c
4. Wait 60mins
5. Drain (re-circulating til clear wort comes through)
6. When finished draining add 5L water at 80c... stir.... drain
7. Repeat step 6

By my calculations, that would give me approximately 21 litres preboil volume (considering the 1.1 litres/kg grain absorption)

Apart from actually attempting this recipe, is there anything here I am going to do that you would say is wrong?

Any help would be appreciated :icon_cheers:

 

[TidalPete]

Sorry... but against all your advice I have decided to go for it and make this thing.

Before I do... can I run through my plan with you guys and see if I am about to do something monumentally stupid?


1. Add 10L water @ 56.4c to achieve temperature of 50c
2. Wait 30mins
3. Add 8L water @ 96.3c to achieve temperature of 68c
4. Wait 60mins
5. Drain (re-circulating til clear wort comes through)
6. When finished draining add 5L water at 80c... stir.... drain
7. Repeat step 6

By my calculations, that would give me approximately 21 litres preboil volume (considering the 1.1 litres/kg grain absorption)
Apart from actually attempting this recipe, is there anything here I am going to do that you would say is wrong?

Any help would be appreciated :icon_cheers:

Hoppin,

If, in spite of all my recommendations for you to get another sheila , you will persist in this for your first AG I'll suggest ----

1 --- Check your grain temp before adding your liquor for the Protein Rest temp (50 deg c).
2 --- Wait 20 minutes.
3 --- Add your water at ??? deg c to achieve 68 deg c (Saccharification Rest).
4 --- Wait 60 minutes.--- re-circulate until clear, drain.
???? No mashout? --- Up to you.
5 --- Add half your sparge water at 90 deg c, sit for 10, recirculate until clear, drain (First sparge).
6 --- repeat 6 (Second sparge).

Pretty good for your first AG mate. Only a couple of little nitpicking things to correct.
Might be better to bring your hops up to 19-20 IBU?

Have a great brewday Hoppin!

TP :beer:

 

[hoppinmad]

Hoppin,

If, in spite of all my recommendations for you to get another sheila , you will persist in this for your first AG I'll suggest ----

1 --- Check your grain temp before adding your liquor for the Protein Rest temp (50 deg c).
2 --- Wait 20 minutes.
3 --- Add your water at ??? deg c to achieve 68 deg c (Saccharification Rest).
4 --- Wait 60 minutes.--- re-circulate until clear, drain.
???? No mashout? --- Up to you.
5 --- Add half your sparge water at 90 deg c, sit for 10, recirculate until clear, drain (First sparge).
6 --- repeat 6 (Second sparge).

Pretty good for your first AG mate. Only a couple of little nitpicking things to correct.
Might be better to bring your hops up to 19-20 IBU?

Have a great brewday Hoppin!

TP :beer:

Thanks tidal Pete. That helps a lot.

I didn't add the mashout step because I don't want to end up with too much liquid. Since my boiler only holds 25 litres it may foam over if its too full. Is skipping mashout going to effect things negatively?

 

[seemax]

It you mash out by adding additional hot water, you can then just sparge less and collect the volume of wort.

There is probably little difference in efficiency assuming your sparge gets the grain mix close to 78C.

You can always do a split boil, use a standard stock pot (10L) to boil this then combine together either in a nochill cube or in the fermentor once chilled. As long as the SG of the main boil isn't too high hop utilisation should be ok.

 

[tyoung]

I did a wit as #4 or #5 as a BIAB and it was pretty easy

I don't have the recipe on me but it was basically:
Pilsner malt
Raw wheat (these were roughly 50/50)
Rolled oats
all this mashed at about 65deg for an hour.

Then boiled with coriander seeds, mandarin peel + tettnang + saaz

Fermented with 3944

Came out bloody nice. Mandarin peel is a good one to try if you've not tried it before.


Cheers,

Tim

 

[hoppinmad]

I did a wit as #4 or #5 as a BIAB and it was pretty easy

I don't have the recipe on me but it was basically:
Pilsner malt
Raw wheat (these were roughly 50/50)
Rolled oats
all this mashed at about 65deg for an hour.

Then boiled with coriander seeds, mandarin peel + tettnang + saaz

Fermented with 3944

Came out bloody nice. Mandarin peel is a good one to try if you've not tried it before.

Cheers,

Tim

Yeah! Mandarin peel does sound interesting. I already have the dried orange peel, but might give that a go next time.